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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:22 pm 
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Tier 1

Both harbaughs
belichick
payton

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:23 pm 
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312player wrote:
Tier 1

Both harbaughs
belichick
payton

That is not fair to Belichick. His accomplishments and record goes well above the rest of those guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:28 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
312player wrote:
Tier 1

Both harbaughs
belichick
payton

That is not fair to Belichick. His accomplishments and record goes well above the rest of those guys.

Belichek is probably on a tier by himself but the AFC East has been a shit show for the better part of a decade. Being able to pencil in at minimum 4-2 every year is nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Forgot about Payton. I think he's better than Lovie, but not on Belicheks level...yet. Maybe Lovie is on tier 3, underneath a guy like Payton. Jim has done great things, but to rank him against others is kind of unfair to everyone since he's still relatively new. It would be like ranking Lovie after the Super Bowl year, which was his third year. Need more data probably.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:30 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
RFDC wrote:
312player wrote:
Tier 1

Both harbaughs
belichick
payton

That is not fair to Belichick. His accomplishments and record goes well above the rest of those guys.

Belichek is probably on a tier by himself but the AFC East has been a shit show for the better part of a decade. Being able to pencil in at minimum 4-2 every year is nice.

multiple superbowl trophies trumps this

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:32 pm 
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I will say I'm a believer in an asterisk next to NE accomplishments. Don't know if that contradicts my belief in Belichek's superiority.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:33 pm 
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Belichick is definitely the best coach in the nfl and perhaps all time. i see the harbaughs winning multiple ribgs tho going forward .

i don't think tom Coughlin is a great coach, he's decent...he has 2 rings.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:36 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I will say I'm a believer in an asterisk next to NE accomplishments. Don't know if that contradicts my belief in Belichek's superiority.


if you're going to talk about him so highly you could at least spell his name right. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:36 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Forgot about Payton. I think he's better than Lovie, but not on Belicheks level...yet. Maybe Lovie is on tier 3, underneath a guy like Payton. Jim has done great things, but to rank him against others is kind of unfair to everyone since he's still relatively new. It would be like ranking Lovie after the Super Bowl year, which was his third year. Need more data probably.



Whatever tier you have tomlin and McCarthy - lovie is below them.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:42 pm 
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W_Z wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I will say I'm a believer in an asterisk next to NE accomplishments. Don't know if that contradicts my belief in Belichek's superiority.


if you're going to talk about him so highly you could at least spell his name right. :)


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:36 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
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There will always be stupid team owners willing to throw millions at mediocrity. Just look what the Bears did today.


Can you please remind me of the last time the Bears went to the super bowl, what coach led them there, and whether or not that kind of development is constitutive of mediocrity.


I have higher expectations. The Bears missed the playoffs in 5 of Lovies last 6 years & he had a winning record in just 5 of his 9 seasons. That doesn't even qualify as mediocre. Why any NFL team would pay this guy $5 million is beyond me.


I would say he had 3 losing seasons in 9 years and 1 was his first season.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:39 pm 
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Scorehead wrote:
No. I'm a big fan of Trestman and his approach. Sure I was disappointed in the Bears finish, but when a team is rebuilding with a new regime you gotta look at the long term. I'm also a big fan of Kellys. The Eagles certainly benefited by playing in an awful division.


This team wasn't and still isn't rebuilding. They brought back the 3rd ranked defense and added offensive talent. The entire offensive line was new with the exception of Garza.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 9:04 pm 
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312player wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Forgot about Payton. I think he's better than Lovie, but not on Belicheks level...yet. Maybe Lovie is on tier 3, underneath a guy like Payton. Jim has done great things, but to rank him against others is kind of unfair to everyone since he's still relatively new. It would be like ranking Lovie after the Super Bowl year, which was his third year. Need more data probably.



Whatever tier you have tomlin and McCarthy - lovie is below them.


Well they've won rings so I guess I can't argue with you there. I wouldn't say they are head and shoulders above him, but they've won what he hasnt on the other hand.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:35 am 
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Nas wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
No. I'm a big fan of Trestman and his approach. Sure I was disappointed in the Bears finish, but when a team is rebuilding with a new regime you gotta look at the long term. I'm also a big fan of Kellys. The Eagles certainly benefited by playing in an awful division.


This team wasn't and still isn't rebuilding. They brought back the 3rd ranked defense and added offensive talent. The entire offensive line was new with the exception of Garza.


The Bears need major rebuilding.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:14 am 
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Scorehead wrote:

The Bears need major rebuilding.


Yes, major rebuilding of the defense.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:04 pm 
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Has anybody released what Lovie is making with this contract? He was up to $6 million/per in his final seasons with the Bears, wasn't he? Or was it $5MM?

Does Spiegel's browser have it?

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:39 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Has anybody released what Lovie is making with this contract? He was up to $6 million/per in his final seasons with the Bears, wasn't he? Or was it $5MM?

Does Spiegel's browser have it?


Lovie $5 M for 4 seasons with an option for 5th.

To even start talking about Lovie in same breath as guys like Harbaughs, Bellicheks, is such a joke. Lovie is a defensive coach who is put in charge of a team. You better believe it is easier to coach defense than offense!

Lovie as a HC had offenses that failed for 8.5 years. Remember that 1 first half of a season Grossman was great!

Lovies defense combined with this bears offense is a GREAT Mix. I am not a fan of his cover 2, sit back, let the other team fuck up, but when you put pressure with the #2 scoring offense it works.

It why Lovie became famous. His guys laid back and waited playing CF, while the offense with Warner Scored at will.

You know the other team is going to have to throw!

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:51 pm 
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A-Rod & Bonds are bastards for "cheating", but Belichick is the best in the business.


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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Colonel Angus wrote:
A-Rod & Bonds are bastards for "cheating", but Belichick is the best in the business.


I'm a believer in Belichik*.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:30 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Has anybody released what Lovie is making with this contract? He was up to $6 million/per in his final seasons with the Bears, wasn't he? Or was it $5MM?

Does Spiegel's browser have it?


Lovie $5 M for 4 seasons with an option for 5th.

To even start talking about Lovie in same breath as guys like Harbaughs, Bellicheks, is such a joke. Lovie is a defensive coach who is put in charge of a team. You better believe it is easier to coach defense than offense!

Lovie as a HC had offenses that failed for 8.5 years. Remember that 1 first half of a season Grossman was great!

Lovies defense combined with this bears offense is a GREAT Mix. I am not a fan of his cover 2, sit back, let the other team fuck up, but when you put pressure with the #2 scoring offense it works.

It why Lovie became famous. His guys laid back and waited playing CF, while the offense with Warner Scored at will.

You know the other team is going to have to throw!


I'm sure you know his system is not as simple as playing center field and waiting for errant passes. This ignores the MLB strategically placing himself in areas to take away intermediate to deep throws down the middle, the emphasis on gang tackling to create TOs (something no other coach did better than Lovie per the numbers), and keeping the play in front of the entire D as a matter of principle.

No one said Lovie is on the same level as Belichik. Thus far in his career Harbaugh has matched Lovies bowl appearances and wins.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:17 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Marinelli is the DC.


Apology accepted


@RapSheet: Leslie Frazier tells me he's committed to joining the #Bucs staff as their DC. Few issues to work out in the morning. But he's headed there


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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:18 pm 
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@RapSheet: Told earlier Cowboys wouldn't let Rod Marinelli out of his contract. Thus, Frazier is DC choice in Tampa (as he 1st told @JosinaAnderson)


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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:30 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Has anybody released what Lovie is making with this contract? He was up to $6 million/per in his final seasons with the Bears, wasn't he? Or was it $5MM?

Does Spiegel's browser have it?


I thought it was over $5M a year. How does he win that division?

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:27 pm 
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Lovie gets to be the GM without having to do all the clerical stuff. Awesome deal for a coach. Not sure why anyone would want to be the General Manager in this scenario though.

Lovie Smith's contract contains a clause that gives him final say over all personnel matters on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers' 53-man roster, according to league sources.

That control is something Smith did not officially have in Chicago when he was the Bears' head coach.

Smith will be formally introduced as the Buccaneers' coach Monday.

As for hiring a general manager, many around the league believe Smith ultimately will hire Kansas City's director of pro personnel Chris Ballard, whom he worked with in Chicago.

Leslie Frazier will be the next defensive coordinator for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, the former Minnesota Vikings coach told ESPN's Josina Anderson. Former California head coach Jeff Tedford will be the Buccaneers' offensive coordinator.

The Buccaneers fired coach Greg Schiano and general manager Mark Dominik last week after finishing 4-12.


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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Unbelievably stupid move by Tampa Bay. They'll learn hard the hard way on this one.


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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:44 pm 
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And it's also good to know that Chicago isn't the only one who operates like this.


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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:45 pm 
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I think he wanted this control based on what happened in Chicago. He still won't make the draft picks though.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:48 pm 
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I'm not sure what happened with Lovie in Chicago. It was obvious he had his hand in personnel decisions. Then they sucked and Angelo wouldn't go along with him anymore?


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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:50 pm 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
I'm not sure what happened with Lovie in Chicago. It was obvious he had his hand in personnel decisions. Then they sucked and Angelo wouldn't go along with him anymore?


Angelo made roster decisions. There were times he cut players that Lovie wanted. I know Angelo made the draft picks. Lovie had input in all of it but Angelo was the decider.

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 Post subject: Re: Lovie Hired
PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:55 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I think he wanted this control based on what happened in Chicago. He still won't make the draft picks though.


Final say over all personal matter would include the draft.

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