It is currently Sat Nov 23, 2024 6:17 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 130 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:27 pm
Posts: 1402
I accept the NFL is a business, but even in the most cut-throat businesses, some organizations treat their own like human beings. The Bears have failed in that capacity for many years.

More egregious than anything, falsifying medical records on players who were CLEARED to play, then suffered greater injury for doing so, is ethically and morally wrong. See Blake Brockermeyer, among others. Brockermeyer was one of several who pursued litigation because the team altered medical records after the fact.

It's impossible to forgive the Dave McGinnis fiasco. After offering McGinnis less money and one year less than the NFL standard contract for head coaches at that time (1999), the Bears asked him to lie to assistant coaches he was bringing in on how many years of their deals would be guaranteed. Then, before the contract was signed, they announced the deal and a news conference BEFORE McGinnis had the opportunity to discuss it with his boss, then-Arizona Cardinals head coach Vince Tobin.

They expected 7-time Pro Bowl center Jay Hilgenberg to take shots to get on the field for several years, then refused to budge on even a marginal amount of $$$ after Hilgenberg conceded he had "lost" the negotiation. They traded Jay to Cleveland for a fourth-round draft pick (wound up being G Todd Perry, Kentucky).

Keith Van Horne also took shots to play when he shouldn't have. So did Steve McMichael. Both of those very good players ended up in holdouts because of silly-low requests for raises. The acrimony between the Bears and McMichael was so strong, they let a 13-year warrior go over a measly $100K difference. Dave Duerson also was allowed to leave over a stupidly low salary increase request. Duerson still had several good years of football left in him.

I don't think Nick Saban would have made a good head coach, but fact is Jerry Angelo wanted him desperately after the Bears fired Dick Jauron. Saban had to be physically escorted out of the negotiating room when Chief Punk Ted Phillips was making requests similar to the ones that blew the McGinnis hiring. Angelo, by the way, was hired by a CONSULTING FIRM. Can you think of another pro sports franchise that doesn't trust its own top-level management types so it needs to outsource to make as a critical decision as hiring a GM?

Jim Morrissey was a few weeks from earning his pension. Because the Bears were in a losing season, they released Morrissey so they didn't have to pay a percentage of his pension. Morrissey, who was a new father at the time, wound up signing with the Packers and living in a hotel room in Green Bay to get the service time required to receive a pension.

There is also the high-level asshole factor. An organization should require at least ONE of its faces to be a tolerable human being. For several years however, nobody in the front office had the sack to pull Lovie Smith, Brian Urlacher or Jay Cutler aside and ask one of them to be more user friendly. I don't expect this of them as a member of the media; I expect it so the teams FANS have one of the most important figures in the organization to be likeable.

The Bears always have conducted themselves like minor leaguers when it comes to Soldier Field. They still have the Chicago Park District to blame for the unacceptable playing field. They were too cheap to hire Roger Bossard as a consultant. The two parties did sit down to negotiate. Bossard left the room shaking his head. When they finally renovated Soldier Field, they fucked it up. Chicago never will get a Super Bowl because of low seating capacity and the absence of a retractable roof. Even a cow town like Milwaukee has a retractable roof. Did I mention how ridiculous the stadium looks AFTER the renovation?

Lovie Smith, while a good defensive coach, was unwilling to hear anything defensive coordinator Ron Rivera suggested. Rivera was the DC by title only. The fallout began in the playoff loss to Carolina when Smith refused to hear out Rivera on dialing up a few blitz packages on Jake Delhomme, who as you remember, helped Steve Smith punch his ticket to Canton that day. By the time the Bears got to Miami for the Super Bowl a year later, Smith barely acknowledge Rivera as a member of his staff.

The Bears allowed the late Mark Hatley, who as personnel director, to leave the organization and take a similar job with Green Bay. After doing so, they STILL ALLOWED HATLEY TO PRESIDE OVER THE BEARS DRAFT!!!! Can you think of anything dumber?

A member of the Bears family put pressure on ESPN radio to fire me after the infamous "bitch" fiasco. He had, shall we say, a strong relationship with the Comcast employee to whom I referred negatively. There was threat of litigation, even though it never would have held water in court. ESPN paid "go away" money to the concerned party. They asked me to split the hush money payment with them. I refused.

One former Bear told me he swears the team falsified what should have been a negative drug test so he would retire.

I'm sure there are things I forgot. When I think of them, I'll amend this list of reasons why the Bears are mere PRODUCT to me. If they get to the Super Bowl again, I will be pleased only for business reasons. And the chance to spend a week in a cool city on somebody else's dime.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:31 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79550
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
I don't doubt a single thing you posted there, but why would I care? This is a sport where guys get paid to become brain damaged. It is what it is. If you really cared, you'd be trying to outlaw football.

It sounds like you've flown too close to the sun. All I want to do is see the Bears win on Sunday. If it takes a fake injury report, a Dan Hampton knee surgery in the back of a Cadillac, or Virginia McCaskey sticking her asshole in Ron Rivera's face to achieve that, I'm fine with it.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:26 pm
Posts: 31155
Location: West Side
pizza_Place: Paisan's in Cicero
Love ya Mac, but isn't this the thing that you hate? Rehashing the past?

_________________
Seacrest wrote:
I rarely troll.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
I'm sure we could make a similar list about the Blackhawks and any other sports franchise in existence or should we just let you keep grinding your axe?

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92041
Location: To the left of my post
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm sure we could make a similar list about the Blackhawks and any other sports franchise in existence or should we just let you keep grinding your axe?
Given the personal nature of one of his things I think it's fair for him to have a strong dislike of the organization.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:29 pm
Posts: 38688
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Good dirty laundry list there.

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23915
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place
Mac wrote:
A member of the Bears family put pressure on ESPN radio to fire me after the infamous "bitch" fiasco.



And here we get to the heart of the matter. I'd have a pretty hard time rooting for a team that tried to get me fired. :lol:

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't doubt a single thing you posted there, but why would I care? This is a sport where guys get paid to become brain damaged. It is what it is. If you really cared, you'd be trying to outlaw football.

It sounds like you've flown too close to the sun. All I want to do is see the Bears win on Sunday. If it takes a fake injury report, a Dan Hampton knee surgery in the back of a Cadillac, or Virginia McCaskey sticking her asshole in Ron Rivera's face to achieve that, I'm fine with it.


This x1000.

I'd approve of them to commit ritual sacrifice at the 50 yd line if it got them another Super Bowl win. I dont know/care about the lives of any of these players and they sure as shit dont care about me. Fuck them. Win games.

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 6:46 pm
Posts: 33813
pizza_Place: Gioacchino's
Bears are cheap, the McCaskeys are assholes, and Lovie is a jerk...you don't say? I'm shocked! Shocked I say!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:36 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Quote:
One former Bear told me he swears the team falsified what should have been a negative drug test so he would retire.


Image

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
I'm sure we could make a similar list about the Blackhawks and any other sports franchise in existence or should we just let you keep grinding your axe?
Given the personal nature of one of his things I think it's fair for him to have a strong dislike of the organization.


Then just say that someone in the org tried to get me fired. DOnt make up bullshit about how you care about old players and how they were treated. It's bullshit. He's pissed at them for personal reasons, that's cool.

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:28 pm
Posts: 29948
Location: SW Burbs
It is obvious that they have made a conscious decision to address the 'asshole factor' with their latest hires. The repeated compliments of the media and fans is exhausting at every presser.

_________________
FavreFan wrote:
Im pretty hammered right now.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:26 pm
Posts: 31155
Location: West Side
pizza_Place: Paisan's in Cicero
Mac wrote:
One former Bear told me he swears the team falsified what should have been a negative drug test so he would retire.


Image

_________________
Seacrest wrote:
I rarely troll.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
The Hawks blacked out games for years and treated their fans worse than shit on the bottom of their shoe.

Still Chief Danny Machawk though. :lol:

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm
Posts: 57232
Interesting stuff to say the least.

But let's not pretend that every team in the NFL does not have their same share of situations and stories.

There are assholes in every organization, therefore your idea of being a "fan of the NFL" is ridiculous

To use this as a crutch as to why you are no longer a Bear fan is weak.

You can do better mac.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."


Frank Coztansa wrote:
I have MANY years of experience in trying to appreciate steaming piles of dogshit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 40983
Location: Chicago
pizza_Place: Lou Malanati's
Said it for years. They are a terrible organization from top down.

George McCaskey has seemed to have some good intentions or just allows good things to happen for the first time in a real long time.

All the stuff Mac mentioned boils down to the family not having any other income other than this team.

I dont know where that situation stops or starts (3rd cousins?) but when you have a bean counter always aware of the finances down to the nickel, choices are made with those thoughts always in mind.

The organization does very little to embrace what might be the best history of any team. Which if they had even an ounce of creativity, they could turn it into big money. BIG MONEY.

Mac forgot to give Sweatty Teddy credit for all those hits on the internet site!

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:40 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
I don't have an issue with the way the Bears have run their organization based on the accusations you listed. This isn't the league where loyalty is important. You probably have 30 new faces on the team every year and most players won't be around for 3 years. It's a hardnosed business and they've done what they've needed to do to be successful. Only thing they clearly fucked up on was the stadium.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:25 pm
Posts: 27055
spmack wrote:
Love ya Mac, but isn't this the thing that you hate? Rehashing the past?


i think the point is this crap has been going on for decades, and isnt over. not really the past.

i just ask you mac, who is to blame? the "bears" is just a corporation. it has to be run by someone. is it the mclaskies? i thought george took it over? is virginia really that big of a vagina? i know she wont let us have cheerleaders, which is the #1 reason i cant get my grandpa to watch the bears when the cowboys are on another channel...

_________________
the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:42 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Hank Scorpio wrote:
The Hawks blacked out games for years and treated their fans worse than shit on the bottom of their shoe.

Still Chief Danny Machawk though. :lol:
They also have a guy who beat his wife as a Team Ambassador.


How about the White Sox and the way they got rid of Fisk?


I'd guess almost all most pro teams have these kinds of issues. Even the Packers with Farve wasn't a very pleasant separation.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625
Nice list, Mac.

Nothing too surprising, but still interesting detail.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 7:00 pm
Posts: 40983
Location: Chicago
pizza_Place: Lou Malanati's
Hank Scorpio wrote:
The Hawks blacked out games for years and treated their fans worse than shit on the bottom of their shoe.

Still Chief Danny Machawk though. :lol:


Did they really? or was Old Man Wirtz really thinking he was protecting season ticket holders?

one thing that mattered to him more than anything was the money and I cant believe he didnt see the $$$ he was missing out on.

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:29 pm
Posts: 34795
pizza_Place: Al's Pizza
Mac wrote:
Chief Punk Ted Phillips


Mac Dunlop.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
The Hawks blacked out games for years and treated their fans worse than shit on the bottom of their shoe.

Still Chief Danny Machawk though. :lol:
They also have a guy who beat his wife as a Team Ambassador.


How about the White Sox and the way they got rid of Fisk?


I'd guess almost all most pro teams have these kinds of issues. Even the Packers with Farve wasn't a very pleasant separation.


Exactly what I'm saying. Mac has the most valid reason to be pissed off but he wraps it around all this stupid shit for some reason. If the Bears tried to mess with my career I would be pissed too.

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:25 pm
Posts: 27055
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't doubt a single thing you posted there, but why would I care? This is a sport where guys get paid to become brain damaged. It is what it is. If you really cared, you'd be trying to outlaw football.

It sounds like you've flown too close to the sun. All I want to do is see the Bears win on Sunday. If it takes a fake injury report, a Dan Hampton knee surgery in the back of a Cadillac, or Virginia McCaskey sticking her asshole in Ron Rivera's face to achieve that, I'm fine with it.


well this is stupid in reality. dont tell me for a second you aren't jealous of the packers, win or lose.

_________________
the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:47 pm
Posts: 218
pizza_Place: Taco Bell Mexican Pizza...mmmmm
Mac, for a guy who has such a long and ancient laundry list of reasons that he doesn't like the Bears, you sure were energetic a couple years ago in regards to wanting Lovie's head on a pike. In fact you were volunteering to lead the charge. Could it be you don't like the Bears now because they are the last obstacle for your beloved Hawk to overcome in their quest to dominate the winter sports landscape of Chicago? I mean lets face it, the Bulls are now about as newsworthy as any one of the hundreds of pickup basketball games that takes place around Chicago any afternoon or evening. So all that's left is the Beloved Bear.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 23915
pizza_Place: Jimmy's Place
I used to own a herd of dairy cattle (seriously). I didn't like to send a cow down the road, seeing as they are quite pleasant creatures, but the minute she was costing me money instead of making me money off she went.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:45 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 8:06 pm
Posts: 81466
pizza_Place: 773-684-2222
Spaulding wrote:
Bears are cheap, the McCaskeys are assholes, and Lovie is a jerk...you don't say? I'm shocked! Shocked I say!


The Bears aren't cheap. Like every other team in the league they are spending the maximum amount of money the league allows them to spend. Being tough in negotiations (minus the Cutler deal) is the responsible thing to do. It's a business. Being assholes or jerks has nothing to do with winning. No one would care how the coaches or players behaved if they were winning Super Bowls.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm
Posts: 81625
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
The Hawks blacked out games for years and treated their fans worse than shit on the bottom of their shoe.

Still Chief Danny Machawk though. :lol:
They also have a guy who beat his wife as a Team Ambassador.


How about the White Sox and the way they got rid of Fisk?


I'd guess almost all most pro teams have these kinds of issues. Even the Packers with Farve wasn't a very pleasant separation.


Exactly what I'm saying. Mac has the most valid reason to be pissed off but he wraps it around all this stupid shit for some reason. If the Bears tried to mess with my career I would be pissed too.

The extremely cheap negotiating is not all teams


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:25 pm
Posts: 27055
Hatchetman wrote:
I used to own a herd of dairy cattle (seriously). I didn't like to send a cow down the road, seeing as they are quite pleasant creatures, but the minute she was costing me money instead of making me money off she went.


ok mike vick

_________________
the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Your "Beloved" Bears
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:46 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79550
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
bigfan wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
The Hawks blacked out games for years and treated their fans worse than shit on the bottom of their shoe.

Still Chief Danny Machawk though. :lol:


Did they really? or was Old Man Wirtz really thinking he was protecting season ticket holders?

one thing that mattered to him more than anything was the money and I cant believe he didnt see the $$$ he was missing out on.


Yeah, I have to think he actually thought that was the smart financial decision.

But you have to consider how old he was and consider that he had a different view of television than we do seeing as how he grew up without it, or at least witnessed it before it was everything the way it is today. It's probably like telling a guy like me that you need a presence on Google Glass. :lol:

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 130 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group