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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:57 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
the NBA has also created a product that is generally boring to watch.
The funny thing is that this is exactly what the NBA wants. They rig the whole system so the dominant player in the league WILL win the title. The only question is if the second most dominant player can be dominant enough to win the title. The way the game is called. The way it is played. The types of offense and defense that are allowed. The salary cap structure. All of these things are designed so Lebron/Kobe/Shaq/Duncan/Jordan/Magic/Bird win titles. They are constantly chasing the 90s NBA because it was so much of a force then. Lebron screwed it up by being an unlikable douchebag at just the wrong time.

If you are a team without Lebron, you don't matter. Eventually, a team without Kevin Durant won't matter though he may be looking like another Karl Malone who just can't get over another player. And if you are a team that doesn't get whoever the superstar is out of this years draft(probably Jabari Parker) you won't matter either.


I think the way the league is today is not structural, but just the result of overpopulation. I've said this before, and I strongly believe in this, it is harder to succeed at a pro level in basketball than it is in something like football. There are no Arian Fosters or Tom Bradys in the NBA - guys who come out of nowhere (Foster was undrafted) and just dominate the league from their positions for years. Since the pool of elite talent in the NBA is comparatively lower, it follows that when you spread an already thin talent pool across 31-32 teams, the competition is going to be less fierce than if that same talent pool was spread across...let's say 20-25 teams.

Separately, I think parity would exist in the NFL even if the league didn't try so hard to foster said parity. I do believe if a Pro Bowl team became a real team next season, it still wouldn't be a lock to in it all because opponents can produce players out of nowhere, whether off the street or late round drafting, and still be competitive.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:29 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I find it interesting how the goal is to "make the playoffs consistently". Why even say this? Do you think any other team is hoping they make it once every 20 years? I'd love to hear the Royals come out and say "We aren't building for sustained success. We want to have one year where we make the playoffs and then we'll be happy to go back to being bad".


Plus, if the goal is to tank for several seasons to get higher picks, doesn't that strategy become ineffective after the team presumably becomes somewhat successful and therefore goes back to drafting in the middle or bottom of the pack?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:35 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
First they criticize the Cubs convention. Despite Monetize Everything.
"They have plenty of money"
"They knew exactly what the debt service would be"
"They have billions of dollars coming in from their future TV deals"
"They are putting themselves in a position to sustain opportunities for the postseason"
"Only one team has minor leaguers better than the Cubs"

And my favorite,
"They've got players that are coveted throughout baseball"-until you have to get some top level young pitching -and-
"their farm system is stocked"-with everything but pitchers.

But the final cut...the "Rays did it!" Except the Rays never won a World Series. And that's all that matters. And at the end of those 10 minutes they admit that it might not work. And they admit that it's all about getting INTO the postseason. Which undercuts their whole argument.

But understanding that the belief is : "Get in the post season repeatedly and that's the best way to win" their stance makes sense


I dont think they're guarenteeing anything.

Personally, Ill take my chances with the Rays run from 07-13, they're in it every year in a real tough division and have won multiple playoff series

"getting in the postseason repeatedly does NOT require the lengths they've gone to to rebuild. It would require simply being wise in player acquisitions and rebuilding at the same time, since it's just a matter of getting in
But that doesn't fit their narrative. It's black and white. We've got to rebuild, so screw the major league level team for the next 5 years.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:38 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
First they criticize the Cubs convention. Despite Monetize Everything.
"They have plenty of money"
"They knew exactly what the debt service would be"
"They have billions of dollars coming in from their future TV deals"
"They are putting themselves in a position to sustain opportunities for the postseason"
"Only one team has minor leaguers better than the Cubs"

And my favorite,
"They've got players that are coveted throughout baseball"-until you have to get some top level young pitching -and-
"their farm system is stocked"-with everything but pitchers.

But the final cut...the "Rays did it!" Except the Rays never won a World Series. And that's all that matters. And at the end of those 10 minutes they admit that it might not work. And they admit that it's all about getting INTO the postseason. Which undercuts their whole argument.

But understanding that the belief is : "Get in the post season repeatedly and that's the best way to win" their stance makes sense


I dont think they're guarenteeing anything.

Personally, Ill take my chances with the Rays run from 07-13, they're in it every year in a real tough division and have won multiple playoff series

"getting in the postseason repeatedly does NOT require the lengths they've gone to to rebuild. It would require simply being wise in player acquisitions and rebuilding at the same time, since it's just a matter of getting in
But that doesn't fit their narrative. It's black and white. We've got to rebuild, so screw the major league level team for the next 5 years.

It IS a matter of getting in. I love how easy it is to sign free agents and make the playoffs in some people's minds. You've over reacted to Theo and gone off the deep end on the other side.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:37 pm 
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it should be easy for one Theo Epstein.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:05 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
it should be easy for one Theo Epstein.

Ok, are you talking to me or Bernstein?


Its not easy for anyone


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:51 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
it should be easy for one Theo Epstein.

Ok, are you talking to me or Bernstein?


Its not easy for anyone

Bernsie. Sorry, thought that was a given.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:55 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
it should be easy for one Theo Epstein.

Ok, are you talking to me or Bernstein?


Its not easy for anyone

Bernsie. Sorry, thought that was a given.

I get it.

Its hard on this board. The lines get blurred.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:59 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
City of Fools wrote:
First they criticize the Cubs convention. Despite Monetize Everything.
"They have plenty of money"
"They knew exactly what the debt service would be"
"They have billions of dollars coming in from their future TV deals"
"They are putting themselves in a position to sustain opportunities for the postseason"
"Only one team has minor leaguers better than the Cubs"

And my favorite,
"They've got players that are coveted throughout baseball"-until you have to get some top level young pitching -and-
"their farm system is stocked"-with everything but pitchers.

But the final cut...the "Rays did it!" Except the Rays never won a World Series. And that's all that matters. And at the end of those 10 minutes they admit that it might not work. And they admit that it's all about getting INTO the postseason. Which undercuts their whole argument.

But understanding that the belief is : "Get in the post season repeatedly and that's the best way to win" their stance makes sense


I dont think they're guarenteeing anything.

Personally, Ill take my chances with the Rays run from 07-13, they're in it every year in a real tough division and have won multiple playoff series

"getting in the postseason repeatedly does NOT require the lengths they've gone to to rebuild. It would require simply being wise in player acquisitions and rebuilding at the same time, since it's just a matter of getting in
But that doesn't fit their narrative. It's black and white. We've got to rebuild, so screw the major league level team for the next 5 years.


Being as bad as they have been at the major league level has enabled them to land some of the better young talent through the draft. If they were spending some money on free agents to try and be competitve at the major league level, if they had the success that some want, they, in all probability, wouldn't have the minor league system that they are building up. If fans can be patient, this may have a pay-off, but there does need to be results sooner rather than later.

At the same time, they can't claim that winning championships is the only thing that matters and then point to the TB Rays as an example of what the Cubs are doing. It seems to me that they are changing the argument at that point to imply that making the playoffs is good enough because eventually you're win (even though TB hasn't).


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