It's not about winning because you can't count on winning. That's the point. I think if the Cubs had a 100 win team, they might draw 3 million in Woodstock. But realistically, how often does that happen? Their value is in drawing fans when they are shit, which they usually are. Almost everyone draws with a good team. If the Red Sox moved out to Foxboro and had a .500 team, no way are they drawing what they do at Fenway. The guys that run these teams aren't stupid. If the Red Sox could make more money playing in a 100,000 seat fake Fenway in rural New Hampshire, that's exactly where they'd be.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Scorehead, I think your underestimating the "central" location of the Cubs. JORR, Curious and others have definitely made me change my tune based on this. There's a big difference between having 1 Metra line reaching new Wrigley Field in Arlington Heights as opposed to all the L lines, Metra, buses and trains that funnel in.

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I'm more of a Jethro except for the black hair.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

That is my point Frank. If the team starts winning it doesnt matter where they play. When they suck all you have to fall back on is Historic Wrigley Field.

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I cant see a 70 win team drawing 3 million fans

I agree, but they MIGHT be able to do this in the first year of a brand new stadium, city or suburbs.

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The Cubs have done it more than once. I can't see it in a fake suburban ballpark. I can see it in a park that most consider a "national treasure".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Oh, without a doubt the first year or two would be strong.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

But if it was a 68 win team, instead of saying "most fans are just there to drink" it could be accurate to say, "most fans are there to check out Daley Field at Lou Malnati Stadium, they don't care about the Cubs."

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Ted Turner told me to tell you, "Fuck you".

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You know me like that.

Right. And in Year 4 of New Wrigley Field at TD Ameritrade Place in Churchill Downs at Arlington Park Square when they have a 75 win team, they'd draw like the White Sox and Scorehead would be at home waiting for the next group of wonder prospects and the media would be asking the question, "Where have all the Cub fans gone?"

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Scorehead really botched that roll call. The Rangers have played in Arlington since the day they left Washington, the Patriots play in Foxborough because as insane as it is to put a football stadium in bumfucking nowhere, it's orders of magnitude more insane to try to fit one in the city of Boston (look at all the places they tried to play in the AFL), and I can't even remember when the Cowboys played in the city of Dallas. It's little matter; Dallas is basically a suburb writ large anyway.

A better choice for a team that left the city for the suburbs, which you neglected completely, would be the Detroit Pistons moving to Auburn Hills. However, since that time, the Tigers and Red Wings have insisted upon remaining in the city of Detroit, and the Lions moved from Pontiac to Detroit. The Cavaliers moved to downtown Cleveland and left behind an arena so out of the way that it's reverted to forest preserve.

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Yet millions do go to Disneyland.

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Elections have consequences.

As is your assertion that the Cubs won't draw just as many in a brand spanking new stadium in AH.

Let's say the Cubs move to the burbs and the White Sox move to Wrigley (for the sake of argument). After the novelty of the new stadium wears off in a few years, which team has higher attendance? (Assuming the same records on the field.)

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Interesting...

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Elections have consequences.

The Cubs. The battle is over. The Cubs won. Maybe in the next 50 years the Sox can overtake them if they win like 10 championships.

Just like the Mets could literally win the next 20 titles in a row and still not be bigger than the Yankees.

Wrigley Field is no longer the cash cow it once was as we are seeing now, and as they continue to lose the "charm" by monetizing anything they can it will basically become a modern day stadium that sits on top of an older stadium.

It would be pretty sad if the Cubs fan base is as big and strong as it is because the stadium is close to Wrigleyville.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Let the record show, Frank said that the Jets and Giants did not flee the city for the suburbs, and nobody said anything.

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There are a lot of people, myself included, who wont go to a Cubs game because it's a pain in the ass. 2 hour car ride to the stadium, $40 to park God knows where blocks from the stadium, then 2 hours home.

There are many many people who think the Cubs should move the hell out of Wrigley Field.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Why would a brand spanking new Wrigley Field in the suburbs be fake? To the contrary, I believe Cubs fans would be thrilled to have a modern day ballpark with all the amenities & I believe they would draw more fans to games. You are stuck in the past & that past is all bad. I thought you were a progressive?

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Joe, if you haven't noticed, the Cubs fans have been leaving for the last few years. For christ sakes, you can buy Cubs tickets online for $5. The slide has already begun. They need a modern day ballpark that retains the charm & characteristics of Wrigley Field.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Cubs by far. The Cubs fan base is at least 5 times larger than the White Sox.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Wrong. And stop comparing the Mets to the White Sox. The Sox have been the better team than the Cubs for a vast majority of the past 70 years. Your ill-conceived opinion is informed by your very, very short life experience. Nothing more. The battle was won because of Wrigley and TV. One advantage gone. The other one so many want to take away.

Furthermore, if the rooftops are so damn unimportant to the "wrigley Experience", why the fuck did the Cubs build a replica rooftop in Mesa?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Yea, you beat me to it. Shea Stadium & Yankee stadium are in New York City.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Joe, Brick is right. Were not talking about who has had the better baseball team, were talking about drawing fans, The Cubs fan base is at least 5 times larger than the White Sox. Fans follow their team, not their teams stadium. You are a lot more nostalgic & old fashioned than I would have thought.

I think you are a Tom Tunney MULT

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Absolutely not. It's ever so slightly larger. The Wrigley Field fanbase can't be counted any longer when you're not in Wrigley Field. If you really think those people are traveling by bus to see the Cubs get the shit kicked out of them, you're crazy. They're coming to see baseball "the way it used to be", in an antique ballpark.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

It's not five times larger. In fact, that thought is absurd. The Cubs have more corporate clients by virtue of Wrigley Field being a "cool place" to take visitors. Do you think that will remain the case in Schaumburg? Or do the corporations buy a skybox in the place that is ten minutes from downtown? Those clients from Germany don't want to see the Cubs. They want to see that ballpark.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

It just so happens that I work for a German company & I entertain many Krauts throughout the year. Do you think they give a shit or care if Wrigley Field is in Chicago or Rosemont? Nope. Hell, when they stay in Rosemont & I take them to Gibsons or Mortons on River Road they think they are already in the city! Those Germans love our steak because the meat in Germany is just terrible.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Please stop citing anecdotes. I could cite my own. Like my Dutch clients who had never seen a baseball game and just had to go to Wrigley Field. Telling them the Sox were 20 games better made no difference to them. They wanted to see a building. Are we going to keep trading anecdotes? Were your Germans blues aficionados too? Did you get away with taking them to the Blues Bar in Mt. Prospect to see Lee DeWyze?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don