this is really the crux of the issue.

I moved a ton of tickets in 2005 and up till mid 2006. Then it began to fall off the map. In 2008, even by August you couldn't move tickets except at face. This whole thing is sliding into White Sox land. The Cubs are more responsible then they were in 2008...at least at that point they were attempting to win by all means necessary. When the Cubs are finally good again, they're going to find they don't draw like they were expecting. Oh, they'll still sell tickets. But seats will be empty. Revenue in stadium will stay down. Until they find a way to improve the traffic, parking, and the overall fan experience while still keeping the park traditional looking, they're better off moving it out of the city. Like IMU, I just don't go anymore except if they're in the playoffs. I go to Opening Day and that's it. I went to nearly every weekend game in 2003, not because of the promise of a good team at first (they were awful the season before we had tickets) but because I loved going to games. Now as I'm in my 30's it's just not worth the headache, even when they're a great team.

I do go every year to see the Cubs in Cincinnati. Say what you will about the park, but there's always great seats, huge concourses, 8-10 parking garages within a five minute walk of the park that charge about $10-15 to park and it's always easy to get back out to go to Indy, Columbus or Dayton. It's a fan friendly experience. Wrigley is not. If they moved to Schaumburg, I'd be there every weekend and a lot of weeknights whether or not the Cubs were good. City indwellers have this sense that it's preposterous to move the team. But they'll soon find out in 2018 or 19 that the Cubs still aren't drawing well if they haven't changed the core issues with Wrigley. And even then...

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Yes. Why wouldn't they? Wrigley is tough to get to for a lot of suburb dwellers. My Cub fan friends ended up going to more White Sox games with me simply because it was easier.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's not your fault you are too old to know how younger baseball fans think now.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

And how do they think now? Let's grab a Metra out to Schaumburg and PAR-TAY!!!!!!?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Then they aren't real Cub fans. Its a lot easier to park at a Sox game, but neither place is very "easy" to get to from the suburbs.

_________________

It's the same as let's grab a Metra out to Union Station, and then the El to Wrigley to a lot of people.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not if you live close to I-55.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I guess the bottom line is there are 10-12M people in the usable area. Either of the ways the Cubs go I am certain they will get the numbers hey desire through the turnstyles. One other point is Pittsburgh built a great old looking new place. A new version of Wrigley is possible. I still do not understand why they won't allow them to use the cell for two years level it and rebuild either.

_________________
Elections have consequences.

You can get "fan friendly" experiences all over. That isn't what the Cubs are selling. It certainly isn't what McDonough sold. They're selling a unique experience. One that cannot be found in Cincinnati or on the South side of Chicago. The mistake Ricketts & Co. may be making is trying to have it both ways. Trying to have modern revenue streams without losing the old tried and true revenue streams that only the Cubs (and perhaps the Red Sox) enjoy. I'm not sure such a thing is possible. I guess we'll find out.

I think you're wrong in saying that the days of the Cubs drawing just because of where they play are over. They've been pissing in the fans's faces for several years and they still draw pretty good. And there's also the fact that the economy has negatively impact attendance at sporting events across the board. You put a watchable team at Wrigley, they'll be selling out again.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

No it isn't. You think you know the "young guy" so well, maybe you and IMU don't really represent him. I don't know many young guys who dream of moving to Streamwood.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I was with you up until this

A good contending Cub team will draw anywhere and the parking or amenities will not keep people away, I promise you.

The only data we have on good Cub teams recently supports that. 03,04, and 08 tickets could be sold way over face value all thru the second half. Im not sure who you're selling to, but I happen to work with guys who pretty much do the Cub ticket thing strictly for the profit and they were KILLING it

If you're trying to get 40,000 people in and out of one point, it's never going to be easy or convenient. If I'm going to try and do that 80some times a year, I'd want to do it where population density is highest and infrastructure is most comprehensive. Football is a different story. If every NFL team had its stadium in some bumblefuck exurb with an ocean of parking, I wouldn't care in the slightest. But it doesn't make sense for baseball, and it doesn't make sense for Chicago.

Build that Pink Line stop at Madison/Paulina, by the way.

_________________

You just don't understand the way the young baseball fan thinks.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Let's get back to the rooftops for a minute. They're not an important part of the fan experience, right? They have nothing at all to do with the Cubs and their brand. If that's the case, why did the Cubs build a fake rooftop for their park in Mesa?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Amenities! Sweet parking garages! Easy to get back to Dayton!


Yesterday at 5...

_________________

Speaking to my personal experience, the overwhelming majority of people who grew up with me in the suburbs stayed in the suburbs after graduation, with some of those who worked in the city renting places close to train stations. Some moved to the city, just like I'm sure some in the city moved to the suburbs but let's not act like every 22 year old upon graduation from college decides that he must move to a city so they can get to Cubs games easily.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Wrigley isn't easy or convenient now though unless you live close to it, or live right on the line of public transportation, but New Wrigley would have those exact same options.

It's not like they are building it out in Pontiac, IL. There would still be public transportation. There would still be close housing. It just wouldn't be in Wrigleyville. There would just be a lot more parking, a better stadium in terms of infrastructure, and you could even move the ivy over if you wanted.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

A lot of people....in the city. Which, factually, is a much smaller number than the amount of people that reside in the suburbs.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

My company, and other companies in the area, certainly would.

We go to Wrigley once a year, as a company and with clients, each year. I could see that number rising greatly if the ballpark was in the NW suburbs.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I've had multiple friends move to the city. Then they start making some money, get a steady girlfriend / get married, start a family...and get right back to the suburbs.

Living in the city is a passing fad that only some 20-somethings feel the need to experience.

This isn't 1850. You don't need to live in a city any longer. Live close enough so that you may visit the sites and eat at Siena Tavern every once in awhile and you're golden.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I think there would also be companies based in the City that would take less games or not buy that skybox or maybe buy one at Sox Park instead.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah. I do get the benefits of big city living too, but that is also why priceline and hotwire exist.

I do regret not spending one year in a big city but there are ways to get around that.

You are a smart man IMU.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I wasn't trying to sell in 2003 or 2004. 2008 was not an easy sell...you could divest of tickets at face, but try making money and good luck. And it's only going to get tighter now. They're getting rid of all games on free TV and the superstation, and they're going to suck for a stretch of 8-9 years when this is all done (2009-2018?). They're taking away some of the old school ambiance (that I agree they need to do, but...) They're just eroding their fan base, little by little.

And count me in the group of going to more Sox games than Cubs games last year. This despite the fact that it is a longer ride from my place. The parking, seating and overall experience were much better.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Yeah, that is really not up for debate. The corporate tickets would not be nearly the same anywhere outside city limits

my brother was dead set on working and living in the city. Took five years, but he had enough. He'll trade the hour commute for having a front lawn, etc.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Do you primarily sell the majority of your tickets? Is your aim to profit off them? I feel like you're putting your financial interests ahead of logic if so.

my "aim" is to afford to buy season tickets, mainly at this stage to attend playoff games. It didn't start that way, but after eleven years, a marriage, a house, a kid etc. I'm not made of money anymore.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

Work harder.

_________________

That's fair. Most of your posts involve the ability of selling them so gave the wrong impression.

Do. Your. Job.

_________________
Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.