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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
yes if concealed carry is 100% legal there will be things like the movie theater incident, but I guess i just don't feel like it will devolve into the wild west, which is what it sound like you think . nothing will ever be perfect, but i am in favor of it

Of course it won't devolve into the wild west. We know this to be totally factual. Why? Because 49 other states have not devolved into the wild west.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:36 pm 
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Seems like a bit out of the way for Raylan Givens to be gassing up.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:40 pm 
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When I said wild west, I meant the guy drawing his gun like Quick and the Dead style. I was surprised he would go with that with a gun pointed at him.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Sounds like he more distracted him with left hand fumbling for wallet and was able to draw with right.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

That's fine. I don't want to truncate anyone's Second Amendment rights myself. Personally, I won't have a gun in my house since the numbers show that the odds of it killing me or someone I care about are immensely greater than ever using it successfully in a situation such as the one we're discussing. I just want to make sure we don't have any of the gun control guys cheering this.

So you don't want to truncate anyone's second amendment rights but you're cool truncating their 1st amendment rights?
Got it.


:lol: :lol: What a dick you are. You're the best!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:46 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Bagels wrote:
yes if concealed carry is 100% legal there will be things like the movie theater incident, but I guess i just don't feel like it will devolve into the wild west, which is what it sound like you think . nothing will ever be perfect, but i am in favor of it

Of course it won't devolve into the wild west. We know this to be totally factual. Why? Because 49 other states have not devolved into the wild west.


Statistically speaking The Old West had a far lower Gun violence than we do because people where packing ,add to the fact that you could see they where packing made it a far more civilized and polite society than we have here nowadays.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

That's fine. I don't want to truncate anyone's Second Amendment rights myself. Personally, I won't have a gun in my house since the numbers show that the odds of it killing me or someone I care about are immensely greater than ever using it successfully in a situation such as the one we're discussing. I just want to make sure we don't have any of the gun control guys cheering this.

So you don't want to truncate anyone's second amendment rights but you're cool truncating their 1st amendment rights?
Got it.


:lol: :lol: What a dick you are. You're the best!

I'm glad you like my dick!

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:52 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
far more civilized and polite society than we have here nowadays.

Who was it you wanted to rape in the asscunt?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:54 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
far more civilized and polite society than we have here nowadays.

Who was it you wanted to rape in the asscunt?


That was in a galaxy long ago and far away

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:20 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
That was in a galaxy long ago and far away

Image

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:33 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
That was in a galaxy long ago and far away


like the wild west was?

Quote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Statistically speaking The Old West had a far lower Gun violence than we do because people where packing

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Last edited by IkeSouth on Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:34 pm 
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uh oh..Floridas stand your ground strikes again...

http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/2 ... chell.html



Quote:
Man had no right to confront teens blasting music: Mitchell

By MARY MITCHELL February 10, 2014 6:42PM

Michael Dunn

Updated: February 11, 2014 2:24AM


It wasn’t “loud music” that led to the killing of 17-year-old Jordan Davis in Jacksonville, Fla.

It was the misguided notion on the part of the shooter that he could force his will on teenagers.

Michael Dunn, 47, a white software engineer, is on trial for first-degree murder and three counts of attempted murder for a shooting that began with him asking a car full of black teens to turn down their loud music.

The trial is drawing to a close, with no evidence that any of the teens had guns.

Like the Trayvon Martin tragedy, where George Zimmerman felt he had a right to confront an unknown black teenager in his neighborhood, Dunn shouldn’t have said anything to these teens.

In fact, there was no reason for Dunn to think these teens were going to jump at his command as if he were the mall cop.

He’s not special. Most people can’t stand being bombarded with filthy lyrics. But we roll up our windows and keep moving.

The lyrics that pushed Dunn over the edge just happened to be by Lil Reese, a young Chicago rapper whose creative genius consists of how many ways he can call a woman a “b----” and a man a “n-----.”

“Beef” was booming when Dunn asked the teens to turn the music down. At first, the driver of the vehicle complied. Then, Davis told his friend to turn the volume back up and Dunn and the teen exchanged profanities, according to testimony.

Dunn, who had a concealed weapons permit, told police he thought Davis had a gun. After words flew back and forth, Dunn got his 9 mm handgun from his glove compartment and fired at least 10 shots at the parked vehicle, killing Davis.

Police did not find any guns or other deadly weapons in the teen’s vehicle.

After fleeing the scene and failing to report the shooting to police, Dunn is now trying to hide behind Florida’s “stand-your-ground” defense.

“Dunn had every right not to be a victim,” his defense attorney, Cory Strolla, told the jury, according to the Associated Press.

But in this situation, Dunn was far from being a victim.

The teens didn’t drag him out of his car and physically attack him, nor did they harass his girlfriend when she got out of the car to go inside of the store.

What they did was disrespect Dunn’s authority, and apparently that was enough to turn him into an armed aggressor.

Had he not said a word to these teens, none of this would have occurred.

Perhaps, Dunn was emboldened by his “conceal-and-carry” privileges, but he mishandled this situation and is responsible for the death of another unarmed black teenager.

Yes, these teens could have responded differently. They could have said “yes, sir,” and turned down the volume. And I don’t condone teens cursing out adults.

If the teens were breaking the law by playing loud music, Dunn should have called the police, not acted like he was the police.

Frankly, I could understand Dunn confronting the teens had they parked SUV outside his home and bombarded the block with Lil Reese.

But these teens were parked in a gas station/convenience store parking lot.

The most Dunn should have done was complain to the store’s management and ask them to address the nuisance. Instead, Dunn went Rambo. That’s just wrong.

Dunn has the right to hate rowdy behavior.

But he had no right to kill.

For that, I hope the jury puts him in prison where loud music will be the least of his worries.

Email: marym@suntimes.com


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:36 pm 
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At what point does Florida fold the losing hand that is the "stand your ground" law?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:38 pm 
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god damn... i might have believed him if he didnt flee the scene. stupid move, but then again he did just commit murder so i would have fled too.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:39 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
At what point does Florida fold the losing hand that is the "stand your ground" law?


This isnt a stand your ground case though... Sounds like he told a car full of kids to turn down offensive lyrics and they said fuck off, he said fuck off and then decided to open fire for no reason. He wasnt standing his ground, he was being a homicidal maniac.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:40 pm 
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IkeSouth wrote:
god damn... i might have believed him if he didnt flee the scene. stupid move, but then again he did just commit murder so i would have fled too.


you might have believed him that he was in danger somehow ?

i think you kind of lose that defense when you are the one that confronts the other person...


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
At what point does Florida fold the losing hand that is the "stand your ground" law?


This isnt a stand your ground case though... Sounds like he told a car full of kids to turn down offensive lyrics and they said fuck off, he said fuck off and then decided to open fire for no reason. He wasnt standing his ground, he was being a homicidal maniac.

He's claiming he was in danger which is what the law is supposedly for.

Same with Zimmerman, same with the guy who chased and shot the guy who drove too fast down his block etc etc


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:42 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
god damn... i might have believed him if he didnt flee the scene. stupid move, but then again he did just commit murder so i would have fled too.


you might have believed him that he was in danger somehow ?

i think you kind of lose that defense when you are the one that confronts the other person...

You'd think so, wouldnt you?

Zimmerman, the movie shooter, and this guy all could have easily avoided any confrontation, but they wanted one.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:44 pm 
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You can get rid of it and they will just say self defense. Florida is insane. Stand your ground law is just the hot new thing. People in Florida will continue to be weird and kill each other.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:45 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
You can get rid of it and they will just say self defense. Florida is insane. Stand your ground law is just the hot new thing. People in Florida will continue to be weird and kill each other.

Ok.

But, lets get rid of the law that let them get away with it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:49 pm 
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NRA Lobbies To Expand Florida’s ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law, As Shooter Stands Trial For Killing Jordan Davis
BY NICOLE FLATOW ON FEBRUARY 11, 2014 AT 9:40 AM


Tuesday morning, the lawyer for Michael Dunn starts the first full day of his defense in the murder trial for his fatal shooting of 17-year-old Jordan Davis, in what is likely the most prominent Florida Stand Your Ground case since Trayvon Martin. But while Dunn and his lawyer are invoking the language of the Stand Your Ground law to argue that he shot the seemingly unarmed teen in self-defense, a state Senate panel will take up a bill Tuesday morning to expand Florida’s already-expansive self-defense law.
Florida’s Stand Your Ground law grants immunity from both criminal and civil charges to those who use deadly force anywhere they have a legal right to be without any duty to first attempt retreat, if they can show that they had a reasonable fear of imminent bodily harm or death. The law has been cited by many defendants who appear to have been exercising vigilantism — turning to their guns before first attempting to call the police or walk away. In Florida alone, at least 26 children and teens and 134 individuals overall have died in Stand Your Ground cases since the law’s passage. While moves to repeal failed in November, another bill to instead expand the law is advancing rapidly.
The new bill has been dubbed a “warning shot” bill, and now a “threatened force” bill, and it would extend Stand Your Ground-like immunity from both criminal and civil charges to those who point a gun at an attacker or fire a gun as a self-defense threat or warning. The provision easily cleared a House committee in November, and will go before the Senate Judiciary Committee Tuesday morning.
In anticipation of the vote, the Sarasota Herald-Tribune’s “The Gun Writer” blog posted an item Tuesday that, verbatim, published a National Rifle Association press release on the bill and accompanying op-ed. The National Rifle Association and Republicans backing the bill are capitalizing on provisions that roll back the state’s mandatory minimum sentencing scheme, known as “10-20-life” to garner support. “People make mistakes and do irrational things when in fear of death or injury. That doesn’t mean they should go to prison for 20 years when there was no injury or harm done,” reads the re-posted op-ed by past NRA President Marion P. Hammer.
What the NRA’s press release and op-ed don’t mention is that the bill doesn’t just remove mandatory minimum sentences for those who would be convicted of gun and violence-related crimes; it also removes all criminal and civil liability for those who successfully invoke the defense in as vague and sweeping a manner as the original Stand Your Ground law, potentially opening the door for more judicial rulings of the sort we have already seen that excuse fatal shootings of unarmed victims.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:50 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I just want to make sure that guys who are anti-concealed carry don't applaud this just because it happened to be a cop who was carrying.

I'm anti-concealed carry.

I don't applaud this...but I trust a trained cop in this situation over some random guy who had to sit through a classroom for several hours.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:00 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
You can get rid of it and they will just say self defense. Florida is insane. Stand your ground law is just the hot new thing. People in Florida will continue to be weird and kill each other.

Ok.

But, lets get rid of the law that let them get away with it.


I think Zimmerman gets off regardless of the law being on the books.

This Dunn guy is going to jail.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:06 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
You can get rid of it and they will just say self defense. Florida is insane. Stand your ground law is just the hot new thing. People in Florida will continue to be weird and kill each other.

Ok.

But, lets get rid of the law that let them get away with it.


I think Zimmerman gets off regardless of the law being on the books.

This Dunn guy is going to jail.

Are you in favor of the law?

Whats the issue with getting rid of it?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:09 pm 
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Bagels wrote:
IkeSouth wrote:
god damn... i might have believed him if he didnt flee the scene. stupid move, but then again he did just commit murder so i would have fled too.


you might have believed him that he was in danger somehow ?

i think you kind of lose that defense when you are the one that confronts the other person...


i was talking about this guy- http://www.suntimes.com/news/mitchell/2 ... chell.html

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:10 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
This Dunn guy is going to jail.
I know he strikes out a lot, but I don't think jail is going to make the Sox better.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:12 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
You can get rid of it and they will just say self defense. Florida is insane. Stand your ground law is just the hot new thing. People in Florida will continue to be weird and kill each other.

Ok.

But, lets get rid of the law that let them get away with it.


I think Zimmerman gets off regardless of the law being on the books.

This Dunn guy is going to jail.

Are you in favor of the law?

Whats the issue with getting rid of it?


No, I'm not in favor of it. They can get rid of it to remove the excuse but it's still gonna happen and they will just call it self defense like they used to before the law with a cool sounding name was passed. I think people are blaming the law when they should be blaming the crazy people that live in FL.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:31 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

That's fine. I don't want to truncate anyone's Second Amendment rights myself. Personally, I won't have a gun in my house since the numbers show that the odds of it killing me or someone I care about are immensely greater than ever using it successfully in a situation such as the one we're discussing. I just want to make sure we don't have any of the gun control guys cheering this.

So you don't want to truncate anyone's second amendment rights but you're cool truncating their 1st amendment rights?
Got it.


:lol: :lol: What a dick you are. You're the best!

16 minute response time from when you put out the bat signal. Not bad, Darko.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
No, I'm not in favor of it. They can get rid of it to remove the excuse but it's still gonna happen and they will juit self defense like they used to before the law with a cool sounding name was passed. I think people are blaming the law when they should be blaming the crazy people that live in FL.

The law is helping murderers get off.

Its been used quite a bit. And because of it some of these lunatics are not even getting charged


This is all not even taking into account how the law might make people shoot quicker, which it probably does


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:55 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:

This is all not even taking into account how the law might make people shoot quicker, which it probably does


i'm somewhat conflicted , as i tend to agree with this


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