It's really not a matter of my opinion. People WILL violate laws they find unjust. That much we can probably at least agree on, I would think.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't know about my first thought but I certainly wouldn't think the officers were wrong for busting them. Just like these officers, they could have been wrong in how they did it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I dont think anyone is saying they were morally wrong. Certainly not. Their job is to enforce the law

The risk reward was way off here though. Best case they catch a weed dealer. Don't think that's worth putting extra risk on the already dangerous job. I'm confident if we ran numbers on chances the guy runs and gets away with officers knocking vs not knocking the disparity and even the worst case scenario wouldn't justify the risk



I think there's something missing in this story though

Some posts by JORR and Frank seemed to indicate it to me.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think they were morally wrong. But they were in a tough spot, having to enforce an immoral law.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm saying it. If your job is to enforce an immoral law, you're morally wrong. Nobody ever said, "I'm just doing my job" when they were doing something good.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Exactly. "Just following orders" are some dangerous fucking words.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So now we want police officers to enforce laws based on the personal opinions they have rather than the current laws as set by our legal system?

You guys really want to give cops a lot of power. I mean, if JORR were a cop, you wouldn't get in trouble for shooting someone in a movie theater!

This is one of those threads where I feel like the crazy person for something that I don't even think is that controversial.

"rogue cop" is even more dangerous. I prefer that cops follow the rules set by society even with the flaws they have.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I am late to this so only skimmed but seemed to have gotten the gist. I recently read there was a Supreme Court ruling that threw out a huge case due to a no knock search warrant. They flat out said there must be an announcement before executing the warrant.

Now that poses problems all around. Our law enforcement has become militarized for years and it is getting worse. These guys in my opinion get high on using the battering ram and scaring the shit out of people. It is with merit however. When getting military training on urban warfare that was it. Stun, rush and get the fuck in there and daze and wrap up before they know what it up. So they scream police and not even once second later the door comes down.

If that happened to me I would have no idea it was cops and would start blasting.

The days of the sheriff knocking on your door and waiting for you to answer are over.

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Elections have consequences.

Let's ask ourselves WHY there was a no knock warrant issued.
I mean, if we're taking about a small bag of coke or maybe even a bag of weed we can flush it in the few seconds we have between the knock and the door opening but are we flushing plants and pots and grow lights? What would necessitate the no knock? When you consider the risk of blowing down the door when you apparently knew the occupants were armed to some degree the reward is miniscule to the point where someone was CRIMINALLY STUPID for requesting a no knock warrant.


Also, are we sure there was a warrant? The reports are conflicting.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

bottom line im pretty sure the guy who died probably didnt want to be killed defending a pointless war.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

JORR wouldn't be a cop.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I knew JORR when he used to stop n frisk.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I would place all the immoral blame on lawmakers and whoever thought this was a worthwhile undertaking


I see why you guys think what you do and that following orders is dangerous but I have to point at the top


I guess in my opinion the immoral choice was becoming a cop knowing you'd have to do certain immoral things. At this juncture its on the decision makers.

DID YOU ORDER THE ILLEGAL SEARCH AND SEIZURE?????

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Unfortunately unlike PFC William Santiago, this death didn't save any lives



Well maybe it will affect this no knock thing. What a dangerous action even when somewhat justified

True, either the cops are going to say "fuck this no knock shit if we can get killed legally," or "whatever, we're going to just make sure we kill the guy if he shoots one of us to tie up the loose ends." I mean I seriously doubt there's any way they'd even be brought to trial for killing someone who shot at them, no knock or not.

Gotta say, this is curious.

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Go Cubs!!!!

Yeah somethings missing. Maybe they were going there to rip him off and weren't supposed to be there at all?


Maybe that's just TV

as someone (too lazy to look) pointed out a page or 2 back, i think this is going to be the rule and not the exception these days, unfortunately

Forget about the law. Which thing is immoral- growing a plant or kicking in the door to someone's home? It would be nice if everything were black and white like three thugs pointing guns at a guy just pumping his gas.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Who are you arguing with?

I haven't seen anyone say they were right in kicking in the door instead of knocking.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Why didn't the other cops shot this guy?

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I'm not arguing at all. I posed a question. You can answer it or not. So can anyone else. I know what my answer is.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

We dont know. We suspect there are details missing though because that doesnt make sense.


Id like to learn more about these no knock warrants and how they're used. I could see using one for a Nino Brown type operation.

Your question indicates that either one or the other is immoral. Everyone seems to agree that kicking in the door when it isn't an active violent situation is wrong/immoral/bad.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That seems weird. Was it a 2 man operation?

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

"Neither" or "both" would be a fair answer.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

At least 3 guys, likely more


The SWAT Team found less than five pounds of marijuana plants growing inside and the grand jury indicted him for possession of marijuana while in possession of a deadly weapon.

Ok, both to at least some degree.

Though, the breaking down of the door is worse in my opinion.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!