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 Post subject: Seven bullets was okay
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:44 am 
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At this point I don't think I want to visit Florida for any reason.

JACKSONVILLE, Florida (Reuters) - A Florida jury convicted a white, middle-aged man on Saturday of three counts of attempted murder for opening fire on a car of black teenagers during an argument over loud rap music, but could not reach a verdict on a murder charge for the killing of a 17-year-old in the car.

Michael Dunn, a 47-year-old software engineer, fired 10 rounds at a vehicle carrying four teens in a Jacksonville gas station parking lot in November 2012, killing black teen Jordan Davis.

The jury deadlocked on the most serious charge of first-degree murder against Dunn, forcing Judge Russell Healey to declare a mistrial on that count.

The failure to reach a verdict on the first-degree murder charge is a blow for the prosecution and the Davis family. But Dunn still faces at least 60 years in jail for the attempted murder convictions against the three other teens, legal analysts said.

Prosecutors told a press conference after the verdicts were read that they plan to retry Dunn, who has been in jail since his arrest in 2012, on the first-degree murder charge.

The jury also found Dunn guilty on a fifth count of firing into an occupied vehicle.

The trial has drawn international attention because of racial overtones and Dunn's claims of self-defense.

The case has drawn comparisons to the self-defense trial of George Zimmerman, the former central Florida neighborhood watch volunteer who was acquitted last year of murder in the shooting of an unarmed, black 17-year-old, Trayvon Martin.

Attorney Cory Strolla said Dunn and his family are devastated by the four guilty verdicts. "He never saw it coming, not one bit," Strolla said.

Dunn, who had no prior convictions, testified earlier this week that he began shooting in a state of panic after he thought he saw the barrel of a gun in the back window as Davis started to get out of the car.

Prosecutors said Davis, who had no arrest record, had used foul language when confronting Dunn after the argument broke out, but was unarmed and never posed a physical threat.

"The self-defense argument made some headway. The jury, or some of them, believed he saw a muzzle of a gun," said David Weinstein, a former state prosecutor, now in private practice in Miami.

Mandatory minimum sentencing guidelines in Florida for crimes committed with a gun mean that Dunn faces 20 years for each of the three counts of his conviction.

"It has been a long, long road and we're so very happy to have just a little bit of closure," Davis' teary mother, Lucy McBath, told reporters. "It's sad for Mr. Dunn that he will live the rest of his life in that sense of torment. I will pray for him," she said.

"But we are so grateful for the charges that have been brought against him, we are so grateful for the truth, we are so grateful that the jurors were able to understand the common sense of it all," she added.

"(Teenagers) shouldn't have to worry about walking around, worrying about if someone has a problem with them," said Davis' father, Ron Davis.

"We don't accept a law that would allow our children to be regarded as collateral damage."

THE FINAL THREE BULLETS

Earlier on Saturday, the judge said questions posed by the 12-member jury indicated they thought Dunn was initially justified in firing the first seven bullets to defend himself from Davis, but then went too far by continuing to pull the trigger as the fleeing teens drove off.

The judge speculated that jurors felt Dunn overstepped the limits of self-defense law by shooting a final volley of three bullets after he got out of his car, when the teens no longer represented any kind of threat.

"They may say justifiable use of deadly force was in play to (a) certain point and then it went away. There was no justification for those last set of shots," the judge said.

Critics of U.S. gun laws were quick to react on Saturday.

"The jury did their very best but they were hamstrung by Florida's Stand Your Ground law," said Shannon Watts, founder of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, a non-profit group created in the wake of the Sandy Hook school shooting in December 2012. "The law basically legalizes armed vigilantes," Watts said.

Florida's Stand Your Ground law allows persons who believe they are in imminent danger of serious bodily injury to use deadly force to defend themselves, even if, despite their subjective belief, no real threat exists.

"A person in that position doesn't have to see something (an actual weapon), but there has to be reasonable fear. That's the way Florida law reads," said State Attorney Angela Corey after the verdict.

Since Florida passed its law in 2005, more than half the states have passed similar laws with the backing of the gun lobby.

"The mistrial further sends a chilling effect to parents in the 23 states that have the Stand Your Ground law or laws similar," said civil rights leader Reverend Al Sharpton, president of the National Action Network. "It requires the Civil Rights community to head into Florida, which is now ground zero for a national fight to change that law," he added.

The sequestered jury of eight whites, two blacks, one Asian and one Hispanic, began deliberating on Wednesday afternoon after a week of testimony and spent more than 30 hours trying to reach a verdict.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:51 am 
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If that wasn't a first degree murder, I don't know what might be.

But I see the new definition of "self defense" merely as an extension of the current zeitgeist wherein each person is entitled to "his own truth" and the concept that something is offensive if it offends even one person. In such a culture of self, who is anyone else to tell another person he should not have felt threatened?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:55 am 
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I don't really understand all the intricacies of murder vs attempted murder and the degrees


At least the guys going to jail


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 11:56 am 
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I guess it would depend on when he is eligible for parole, but if he gets 60 years in prison what is the point of retrying him for first degree murder?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:20 pm 
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This guy would be a free man if he did not fire 3 more shots. How can that be legal in this country? Florida just told everyone that 1 to 7 shots on unarmed black kids is okay. There is no doubt in my mind that a person of color would have RIGHTFULLY been convicted of murder.

If they were in front of his home I could understand why he would be upset but they were at a gas station. He looked for a confrontation and unloaded on the car when he didn't get a response he expected. Then he drove away like nothing happened.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Nas wrote:
This guy would be a free man if he did not fire 3 more shots. How can that be legal in this country? Florida just told everyone that 1 to 7 shots on unarmed black kids is okay. There is no doubt in my mind that a person of color would have RIGHTFULLY been convicted of murder.

If they were in front of his home I could understand why he would be upset but they were at a gas station. He looked for a confrontation and unloaded on the car when he didn't get a response he expected. Then he drove away like nothing happened.


Even that's over the top. We can't just have people shooting others because they're annoyed by them. If that were the case, I'd kill someone everyday.

And there's no doubt if a black guy had shot at a car full of white teenagers he would have been convicted.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:36 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Nas wrote:
This guy would be a free man if he did not fire 3 more shots. How can that be legal in this country? Florida just told everyone that 1 to 7 shots on unarmed black kids is okay. There is no doubt in my mind that a person of color would have RIGHTFULLY been convicted of murder.

If they were in front of his home I could understand why he would be upset but they were at <span id="wsbs1c88w5_3" class="wsbs1c88w5">a gas</span> station. He looked for a confrontation and unloaded on the car when he didn't get a response he expected. Then he drove away like nothing happened.


Even that's over the top. We can't just have people shooting others because they're annoyed by them. If that were the case, I'd kill someone everyday.

And there's no doubt if a black guy had shot at a car full of white teenagers he would have been convicted.


You're right that wouldn't justify the killing but you could understand why he would approach the car and ask them to turn their music down or be upset by kids playing loud music.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 12:59 pm 
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Nas wrote:
This guy would be a free man if he ....


walked away

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:02 pm 
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http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-grou ... atal-cases

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conns7901 wrote:
Not over yet.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But I see the new definition of "self defense" merely as an extension of the current zeitgeist wherein each person is entitled to "his own truth" and the concept that something is offensive if it offends even one person. In such a culture of self, who is anyone else to tell another person he should not have felt threatened?


BINGO

Why is it so hard for people to grasp what you just posted?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:09 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But I see the new definition of "self defense" merely as an extension of the current zeitgeist wherein each person is entitled to "his own truth" and the concept that something is offensive if it offends even one person. In such a culture of self, who is anyone else to tell another person he should not have felt threatened?


BINGO

Why is it so hard for people to grasp what you just posted?


BUt I think JORR is condemning that kind of culture.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:50 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But I see the new definition of "self defense" merely as an extension of the current zeitgeist wherein each person is entitled to "his own truth" and the concept that something is offensive if it offends even one person. In such a culture of self, who is anyone else to tell another person he should not have felt threatened?


BINGO

Why is it so hard for people to grasp what you just posted?


Our legal system (in some states) allows anyone to have a convenient excuse to explain away murder. There is no remorse for the crimes either. It's not a question of if it's easy to understand but why are we eliminating the consequences for taking a life and why don't we value the life of all groups of people the same.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:26 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases


That is a great link. It breaks down who killed who and what they killed them for. No black person has be acquitted of killing a white person in Florida and as with just about everywhere in the country most of the black people who were killed died at the hands of another black person.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:48 pm 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But I see the new definition of "self defense" merely as an extension of the current zeitgeist wherein each person is entitled to "his own truth" and the concept that something is offensive if it offends even one person. In such a culture of self, who is anyone else to tell another person he should not have felt threatened?


BINGO

Why is it so hard for people to grasp what you just posted?


BUt I think JORR is condemning that kind of culture.


We all should be condemning a culture that promotes self as it's own "truth."

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:51 pm 
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Nas wrote:
conns7901 wrote:
http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases


That is a great link. It breaks down who killed who and what they killed them for. No black person has be acquitted of killing a white person in Florida and as with just about everywhere in the country most of the black people who were killed died at the hands of another black person.


I only found two where Black guy killed a white guy and was not charged. The first guy doesn't really look like a white person though. It does seem most cases are white on white or black on black etc.

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-grou ... es/case_89

http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-grou ... es/case_23

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:09 pm 
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http://thegrio.com/2013/10/18/jordan-da ... from-jail/

http://issuu.com/travisgibson5/docs/dun ... 92/6458538

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:38 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I don't really understand all the intricacies of murder vs attempted murder and the degrees


At least the guys going to jail



No kidding, if I'm reading it correctly, they convicted this shithead for shooting at 3 other guys who didn't die and let him walk on actually killing the 4th guy.

How can he feel threatened in a public space with a car? Get in your car and drive off. Image


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:54 pm 
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NearWessSideHussra wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I don't really understand all the intricacies of murder vs attempted murder and the degrees


At least the guys going to jail



No kidding, if I'm reading it correctly, they convicted this shithead for shooting at 3 other guys who didn't die and let him walk on actually killing the 4th guy.

How can he feel threatened in a public space with a car? Get in your car and drive off. Image
They pulled out an invisible shotgun and threatened to kill him. Instead of driving off like a coward would, he calmly reached over and opened up his glove compartment, pulled out his gun, said a few words to them and started shooting. He continued firing when they tried to leave because his life was still in danger. Then him calmly drove 200 miles home, didn't tell his wife/girlfriend what happened and slept peacefully. He was just doing his part by trying to "kill these fucking idiots".

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:07 pm 
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Nas wrote:
[They pulled out an invisible shotgun and threatened to kill him.

He claimed it was a shotgun? And they never found it. Sounds like bullshit. Who drives around with shotgun in the passenger compartment of a car. A handgun would've been a more believable lie.

Nas wrote:
Instead of driving off like a coward would, he calmly reached over and opened up his glove compartment, pulled out his gun, said a few words to them and started shooting. He continued firing when they tried to leave because his life was still in danger.

At least this Florida jury convicted him on that last part. Small consolation, but better than the Zimmerman outcome.

Nas wrote:
Then him calmly drove 200 miles home, didn't tell his wife/girlfriend what happened and slept peacefully.


To be fair, it can be tough to get a word in edgewise when you first get home from work. Nothing is as important as whatever she has to say. even if your day ended with you randomly shooting up a car full of kids at a gas station for no good reason, you still have to let her finish what she's saying before even thinking about giving her that info.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:14 pm 
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He claimed to have seen the kids pull out a shotgun and say they were going to kill him. For a big guy he definitely moves fast.

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