All politicians are guilty, thats goddam right.

You could go back as far as the Clinton administration who missed their targets after the attacks on the US Embassay's. Had those missile strikes been on point, Bin Laden might have been dead 6 years before the 9-11 attacks.

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I am sorry but I do not understand what you are talking about? There were warnings that occurred during the ass end of Clinton. I do not know that Bush had specific pre warnings. Would like to see them. As for the Iraq thing how did wanting to invade Iraq after 9/11 and after Afghanistan started distract them BEFORE 9/11?

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Elections have consequences.

Moreover, I did not start any crap about the cause of 9/11 or absolving shit. I stated 9/11 happened and it triggered a recession. I stated that Bush did a better job at recovering from that than Obama did recovering in this 6 year one. Just so we are clear.

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Elections have consequences.

I love this bit you're doing Mike. It's hilarious.

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Yes Rick, it's always black and white like that. Obama wasn't inaugurated in the midst of a global financial meltdown or anything. But of course, recognizing that would require context.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opini ... nings.html

There are hundreds of other links if you google "bush and cheney ignore 9/11 warnings", as I'm sure you will discredit this one.




I thought it was pretty common knowledge that W and Cheney were planning an Iraq invasion from day one. Saddam issued a death threat on GHWB after the war in Kuwait.




You tried to make him a sympathetic figure.




That is just false. The economy completely tanked under Bush, almost to the point of depression. I know it's not ALL his fault, but when you wear the big hat, you take the blame for bad things, just as you get praise for good things.

Obama took a sinking ship, and has it above water. Obviously, our economy isn't where you are I would like it to be. But, let's not pretend that Bush had no effect on the collapse. People that share your views have been pounding Obama since day one, as if the previous eight years never happened.

And I have never seen an economist anywhere, that says cutting taxes, and borrowing money to spend like a drunken sailor is good policy. It's not. Bush ran up the credit card, and handed the bill to Obama. You can bury your head in the sand, if you want.

Honestly, when you talk politics, I feel that you are trolling, or one of your kids is typing. I feel that you live on another planet with some of your opinions, which is why I avoid engaging you, for the most part. You complain about the left being biased and partisan, but you fit that description as well as anybody on this site.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Yeah, that's the point.

It's not like Osama Bin Laden became an issue in January 2001.

Context, you should pay more attention to it too.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Chus, from your last post we are talking about two different things. You said Bush started a depression and so forth. I think you are talking about the 2008 shit that was certainly aided by Barney-Frank and the mortgage industry. I was specifically talking about how Bush somehow got things back on track after the 2000-2001 recession. I will agree it was a less serious recession but W did in fact get it recovered. He gets credit. No matter how bad things you think things were when Obama took over he has not done a satisfactory job with recovery. What is so hard to see? Unless, you really think he has done an A+ job in 6 years you have to see those realities.

As for my political postings I admit I am all over the place. There are two reasons for that. One is that I consider myself a Libertarian that leans strongly right. So on a ton of issues in my mind there is overlap. So it is possible to have both liberal and conservative ideas. The second as many here will attest is that I am not like other rock heads here that do not even consider the other side of an argument. I can be swayed in different directions change my mind or not. Or I can be in a gray area of many topics. It is called being normal.

If you think I am trolling and want to avoid me fine. Whatever you like. Anyhow that is where my posts mostly come from. As for this one I was not wanting to be pulled into any W/Cheney/Obama crap as it did not belong. I strictly wished to talk about recession recovery.

Thanks for you time.

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Elections have consequences.

That's confusing. I've never met a true Libertarian who didn't despise GWB.

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I'd buy that. Bush was terrible on civil liberties. Sickeningly terrible.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I agree that can seem at odds. But I am ex-Army and have a set of different ideas as it relates to military and security. That said, I hate this NSA shit like crazy. So there is one example that my beliefs are not just a peg going into the correct hole.

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Elections have consequences.

He also spent more than any president before him and started two wars. He is the complete opposite of a Libertarian. That's why Mike is confusing me.

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Yes but in my mind it was a different time that called for different actions. There were some that ended up very wrong. Some were ok to me. There also were a shit load of Dems voting for this stuff back then (Senator Clinton anyone?).

The blame game and pigeon holing is dangerous business.

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Elections have consequences.

Well I use Libertarian perhaps wrongly in that I am middle right. Afghanistan was right in my opinion. At first I bought the Iraq thing but then saw it was wrong. Was I required to be Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan and piss all over everything? My libertarian leanings have a stronger connection to things like taxes, big goverment, pot, gays and so on.

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Elections have consequences.

Anyway there is enough here to figure me out. I have to eat.

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Elections have consequences.

But see all you do is blame Democrats and make excuses for Repubs. It's actually comical if you go back and read your posts. A Libertarian simply doesn't do that. Ask FavreFan. He's the real deal. I don't mean to sound like a dick, but you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about or what you believe.

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Fine, I said I lean right. Then don't read me. I am not going to do a 17 page Bmac/Chas thread about my thoughts.

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Elections have consequences.

Your political ideology has changed over the course of 1 page in a matter of minutes, most people evolve over time. (I hope you believe in evolution).

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Geez you guys. WTF is the difference between Libertarian leaning right and middle right. Is it that hard to understand fiscally and security conservative as well as socially Libertarian or agnostic? For chrissakes isn't there a difference between Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan? Why do I have to be one or the other?

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Elections have consequences.

Here I will stop confusing all of you from now on as well as myself with these silly terms. I am Independent. Done.

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Elections have consequences.

A libertarian doesn't really lean left or right, IMO. We think they are both a joke.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

a minarchist libertarian or an anarchist libertarian?

Well then I guess my problem is that I do think there are both joke traits to each. However, I am pragmatic enough to know that a third party in this country might as well be the third rail. So one has to do cost/benefit analysis and choose one. Sorry if that puts some off but that is how I do it.

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Elections have consequences.

I don't really care, but your love for Republicans and hatred for Democrats is quite obvious. Look at your posts. The lengths you go to in defense of one and to attack the other are comical, especially when talking about economics When it comes to economic policy, they are nearly identical. It's silly to excuse one and blame one.

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That is absolutely not true. I think you confuse my hate for Obama, Reid and Pelosi for democrats in general. They really get me going and are fucking jokes. Go read posts where I had sensible discussions with Nas among others and said I liked Bill Clinton. Quite naturally in this current window (last 6 years) if I hate those pols and detest their dishonesty it will certainly appear I am for the other side only.

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Elections have consequences.

Economics cuts way deeper than just the president. It's the federal reserve and the printing of money and the International monetary system (and much more). To attribute economic recoveries solely to a single person is ludicrous. It's part of the problem with this country. Our economic problems don't have a quick fix. There are systemic problems that have been occurring for decades.

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The only difference is about 6 months

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

In fact, I never even was that militant against them until that fucking reconciliation fiasco on Obamacare. Prior to that I figured it was a cycle I would ride out. Since then add in Holder, IRS, Begzhai, NSA etc. and yes I will seem to be one sided.

Go fuck with the Dem posters that only bitch about W, Palin and Boehner.

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Elections have consequences.

I'd bitch about Boehner a lot less if he would grow a set of balls and tell the Tea Party to go fuck off. In fact I would applaud him for that.