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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

A study in how Ukraine is an exceedingly segmented nation ... in these cases, by language and then by who they voted for President in 2010 (but no map to show by cracky).

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/02/world/ukraine-divided/?hpt=hp_t1

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Kind of hilarious that Putin is daring Obama to do something besides talk.

He knows damn well Obama is a pussy.

true ukranians don't perceive themselves as "russian". they are ukraine. kiev is ukraine. nothing we will understand. but let's get in on it because clearly we have to.

Wait ... I thought Obama was a bloodthirsty warmonger when he wanted to invade Syria ...

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Lots of Gazprom N.G. flowing through the Ukraine

My friend Jerry who I play chess with is Ukrainian and he will flip his lid at being called Russian and start mumbling the word, "hate". When he was 16 years old the Russian army came to his home and dragged him from his bed to make him a soldier while his mother stood there weeping.

But I think the eastern ones might identify as "Russian". Or at least they are very close to being Russian from a cultural standpoint. Whether the West (and the western portion of Ukraine) likes it or not, a whole bunch of people voted for Yanukovych in an election that was as legitimate as many of the ones we have in Chicago.

To me, the problem for the United States is that someone needs to decide if our purpose is righteousness or our own best interests. It's quite disingenuous to go around trumpeting freedom and democracy except when we don't like the results. I have no problem with supporting puppet governments and fomenting or supporting revolution. I just think we should drop the pretense of moral superiority. People may respect morality to a certain degree, but they respect guns and power more.

Obama's philosophy was to shrink the U.S. as a world power. The rise of Putin and his budding new Soviet empire is a result of that. That so-called "re-set" with Moscow was the dumbest idea in the history of modern politics. It immediately told Putin that Obama was weak.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

who cares man? the president nowadays is a made for TV position.... they're the hood ornament on the car that's about to run you over. there's a lot of working parts in that car, so who cares if obama is a pussy? i'm pretty sure this ukraine thing is a non-happening, and hell, personally i'm pulling for putin in this one.

i'm not afraid of some giant cataclysmic world war 3 until there's some sort of a massive gun grab then a massive economic collapse and then there's your requisite excuses to go and have a romp around the world shooting the opposition while listening to daft punk's "around the world."

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Fuck Russia to hell. I'm very fortunate both my grandparents escaped to the US. They survived some real fucked up shit from those Russian pricks.

So, he should invade sovereign nations, including the wrong ones, to show you that he is a real man?

Seriously, that sounds like it was written by a child.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

That would be a more compelling argument if we weren't doing such a half-assed job at all three.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I couldn't paint pictures that look that good. Mine would look like they were done by a blind person.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

He has already disregarded the sovereignty of Libya, Egypt, and Pakistan.

And he has undermined our allies repeatedly.

Obama has no place lecturing other countries about this. A furtive glance at his 'foreign policy" serves as a real challenge to the thought that he is some eminently intelligent guy.

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It is what it is. Obama says stay the fuck out. Putin says eat shit and die.

Putin is the bully and Obama is the pussy.

Yes this is a gross oversimplification, but it is true.

And kind of hilarious (at a certain level).

As for Bush? Was he a puppet of the Right? You're damn right he was but at least he wasn't a fucking pussy. Was he basically stupid? Yes he was.

Let's be honest. Politicians in this country are a fucking joke and Putin knows it and will not be intimidated by some shmuck like Obama and I seriously doubt Obama has the stones to do anything substantive about it.

And who will lose? Those in the Ukraine seeking democracy...

Well put:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/put ... 83647.html


Putin Acts, Obama Affirms
10:15 AM, Mar 1, 2014 • By WILLIAM KRISTOL

Here's President Obama on Friday: "The United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine." Characteristically, Obama establishes a few degrees of separation between himself and actually acting. He doesn't say, straightforwardly, that the United States will lead the international community in imposing costs for any military intervention in Ukraine. No. The United States will "stand with" others in "affirming" that "there will be costs."
Obama, Putin in Ireland

One suspects that President Putin isn't very worried about affirmations of future costs by the international community. He's seen Bashar al-Assad survive similar affirmations. Putin, like Assad, understands actions, not affirmations.

So will Obama now move beyond affirmations to actions? Will Obama get Brussels, Berlin, Paris, and London to begin to isolate the Putin regime diplomatically, politically, and economically? Will Obama lead our allies to move the G-8 meeting from Russia, disinvite Putin, refuse visas to Putin's cronies to travel abroad, and expose and tie up bank accounts he and his buddies have in the West? Will Obama expedite the admission of Georgia to NATO, and begin to move toward a security relationship with Ukraine? Will Obama canvass his administration to discover the many other things that could be done to begin to undermine Putin at home and abroad? Will Obama act so that the Russian people and Russian elites see that Putin's actions have costs—real costs, not the affirmation of the possibility of costs?

Or will we be all talk, no action?

How quickly we forget...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsFR8DbSRQE

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Putin saved Obama's ass in Syria and has shown willingness to work with the U.S. on Iran and other international hot-spot issues.

Putin moving Russian troops into Ukraine is about establishing his negotiating position vis a vis the US and EU, and negotiating from a position of strength. While Dubya was a dangerous idiot, Obama's a useful idiot in Putin's weltanschauung. As long as Obama's President, Putin will always work things to make Obama look as good as he can (or at least not take it on the chin too hard) while still accomplishing Putin's geopolitical goals.

The Cuban Missile Crisis provides a sorta antecedent for this play: Before Khrushchev moved missiles into Cuba, the U.S. had missiles in Turkey and Italy pointed at the U.S.S.R. Krushchev moves a few token missiles into Cuba. JFK blusters about get those missiles out of there. Krushchev quietly says "sure, take your missiles out of Turkey and Italy and we'll pull back the Cuban missiles". JFK agrees to remove his missiles from Turkey and Italy, delivering to Krushchev exactly what Krushchev wanted. However, the Kennedy admin PR spin claims victory for JFK over Krushchev; which Krushchev smiles and allows them to do, knowing JFK's his bitch now.

Apparently, this link ... http://kremlin.ru/news/20353 ... is Putin's request for troops to be sent to Ukraine ... not just the Crimean area, but the entirety of Ukraine. Google translate turns it into this:

"Due to the extraordinary situation on Ukraine , threatened the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation , our compatriots , the personnel of the military contingent of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation located in accordance with the international agreement on the territory of Ukraine ( Autonomous Republic of Crimea ) , on the basis of paragraph " d " part 1 of Article 102 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation am submitting to the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation appeal for use of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation on the territory of Ukraine to the normalization of the political situation in this country. "

It was passed unanimously ... https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/statuses/439773107692511233 ... approved 90-0 (not to be confused w/ the score to yesterday's Angels/Cubs game).

Is there any other rational conclusion other than war has essentially just been declared?

Students of history might find a more than passing resemblance to a time in recent history wherein the magic word was Sudetenland. Hopefully that turns out to be untrue.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world ... ml?hp&_r=0

How exactly does this make the POTUS look good?

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wait for it, the game's not over?

Obviously at this stage of the game, it doesn't.
And "good" is too strong a word. Putin will at least let Obama walk away with his/Obama's own sense of dignity and pride intact. So that he/Putin will be able to continue to take advantage of Obama until 2017.

I don't think Putin wants to make the U.S. an open enemy. An open and obvious return to the Cold War benefits Putin not at all.

I think Putin's playing the U.S. and China (a game China and the US also try to play). Letting both countries think he's working with them against the other guy, even getting China to do his bidding in the UN Security Council.

While goading Obama into these farcical red-line statements that Putin then works with Obama to achieve Putin's ends while letting Obama off the hook for his bogative red-line bluster. It's almost like a script: Putin pushes here; Obama says this; Putin then works with Obama to get what Putin wants while Obama gets to feel like JFK in the Cuban Missile Crisis. Rinse. Repeat

So when Putin big timed Obama in Syria, how exactly did that work out to the President's advantage?

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It appears that Sarah Palin predicted Obma's reaction to this very crisis five years ago.


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... ld-you-so/

In 2008, when she was the GOP vice presidential nominee, Palin questioned in a speech whether then-Sen. Barack Obama would have the foreign policy credentials to handle a scenario in which Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine.

"After the Russian army invaded the nation of Georgia, Senator Obama's reaction was one of indecision and moral equivalence – the kind of response that would only encourage Russia's Putin to invade Ukraine next," she said in Reno, Nevada on October 21, 2008.

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it's a bit similar to northern ireland in identity. but seriously...we need to stay the fuck out of that situation. let them sort it out. i'm all for ukraine becoming independent because they have a fucking amazing agricultural system and it'd be nice for them to finally be taken seriously in "risk".

In reality, it didn't. It benefited Putin in myriad ways and made Putin more certain of his game plan and Obama's role in that plan.

But at least Obama could claim V-I-C-T-O-R-Y, a "huge victory", in Syria, just as JFK did after the Cuban Missile Crisis:

This thread is a great microcosm of how fucked up our nation is at this point. Most of the discussion isn't about Ukraine or Putin or actual foreign policy. It's about "how does this make Obama look".

I'm against sending our troops out yet again. That being said, Putin is dangerous, and I really don't want to have to break out my CCCP jersey for the next Olympics.

Lately John Kerry has been making noise about how Syria hasn't kept up their end of the bargain.

He asked for Russia's help a month ago.

https://www.google.com/#q=kerry+syria+chemical+weapons

So now Putin, Palin and Syria have all given him the brush off.

What's the payoff here for the President?

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It's about a President that acts based upon how things look. And without any real conviction in most instances. Which allows him to be pushed around like Gabe Carimi.

Nas has been positing a similar theory here for 5 years now. Shooting the messenger isn't working for Obama anymore either.

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