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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:21 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I hope to hell we don't get involved, despite whatever promises old men with no actual skin in the game made 20 years ago. Sending our soldiers to die just so we don't look weak is piss fucking poor leadership.


The agreement was important, Ukraine gives up its nuclear weapons and we promised security. If we leave them high and dry and don't honor it they will develop the nukes as they will be forced to secure that deterrent. They have already said as much.

Either way, in my opinion Putin doesn't want war, not with Ukraine and not with the West. No guarantee he'd win the former and he'd certainly lose the later. A united front would at least show him he can't go on with games like these.

I also find it funny that we are talking about Putin when he isn't the actual elected leader of Russia.

As an addendum, if you fail to honor agreements and leave allies out in the cold I would imagine that war in the future to be a certainty.


War doesn't appear to be the future. You eventually end up without allies.

Putin has been ridiculing the POTUS on the world stage since he was elected.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:22 am 
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SomeGuy is bringing the knowledge in this thread. Keep this up and you may be qualified to host a show on The Score!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:31 am 
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SomeGuy is bringing the knowledge in this thread. Keep this up and you may be qualified to host a show on The Score!

He is smarter than the average half albino. More than just a pretty face.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:50 am 
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Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I hope to hell we don't get involved, despite whatever promises old men with no actual skin in the game made 20 years ago. Sending our soldiers to die just so we don't look weak is piss fucking poor leadership.


It's not about looking weak it is about being able to lead. If we don't honor our promise and Ukrainians are slaughtered and the country is divided into separate countries we will have lost our influence and ability to lead.

Death of our citizens is the hardest part but they signed up knowing this was a possibility. I don't believe we would lose many lives. That being said when you make yourself the world police then you have to honor the pledges you make despite the sacrifice of lives.

They did sign up knowing its a possibility, but that doesn't make it right to use that possibility wrecklessly. One of the reasons I despise politicians so much is that this is all just a political game to them. It won't be their sons and daughters over there. We need to stop making promises to enter wars we have no business being in and we have to stop acting like we are the world police, and then maybe we won't have to spend a trillion goddamn dollars every year just to feel safe. This would be a good moment to change that. Good leadership isn't about trying to show how big your dick is on the international stage, and no matter how much you guys try to couch it in bullshit political games, that's all this is.

Let every man who says we must honor this promise pick up an M16 and go fight. I'm sick and tired of hearing people who have no skin in the game talk about where and when our soldiers must go to fight.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:53 am 
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Good read here about former Soviet satellite nations and their very real fears:


http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... us/284156/

Russia's Seizure of Crimea Is Making Former Soviet States Nervous

The crisis in Ukraine has countries formerly in Russia's orbit fearing Putin's next moves.

Matt Ford Mar 1 2014, 10:40 PM ET


For the first time since the Soviet Union's collapse more than two decades ago, Russian military forces have moved into an Eastern European country and occupied its territory. Over 15,000 Russian soldiers are now stationed in Ukraine's autonomous republic of Crimea, according to Ukrainian officials (it's not clear how many of them were already in the region before this crisis), in a deployment ordered by Russian President Vladimir Putin to protect "Russian citizens and compatriots on Ukrainian territory." No shots have been fired, but Ukraine's acting president, Oleksandr Turchynov, has placed his country's military on its highest alert level to deter "potential aggression," as the United States condemned Russia's "invasion and occupation of Ukrainian territory" in violation of international law.

Fifteen independent countries, including Russia, emerged from the Soviet Union's disintegration. Six of them—Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, and the three Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania—are in Europe, and all of them have a complicated relationship with modern Russia. Seven other countries once belonged to the Warsaw Pact, the Soviet Union's military alliance in Eastern Europe. With the Cold War's end, none of them had faced the threat of military intervention by the communist superpower's successor state—until now. (In discussing Europe here, I'm not including Eurasian countries like Georgia, which fought a war with Russia in 2008, or the military support Russia offered Moldova's breakaway Transnistria region in the early 1990s.)

In response to the standoff in Crimea, Estonian President Toomas Hendrik Ilves announced that he would convene the National Defense Council on March 2 to discuss the crisis and called upon the Baltic states to increase their defense spending. "The events in Ukraine show that this struggle is taking place within Europe as well," he said in a speech to the Baltic Defense College last week. "This sends a clear signal to Estonia and the [other] Baltic states: we must invest more in our national defense." Estonia, along with Latvia and Lithuania, joined NATO in 2004.

"The Baltic states have been among the most vocal EU states during this crisis, urging Russia to abandon its military intervention in Ukraine and respect Ukrainian territorial integrity," Erik Brattberg, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, told me. "They will watch the events in Ukraine closely to see if the U.S. and NATO will stand up against Russian aggression."

Recent experiences with Russia also fuel Estonia's concerns. The removal of a Soviet-era war statue from the capital city of Tallinn in 2007 led to riots among ethnic Russians (who make up almost a quarter of Estonia's population) and diplomatic outrage from Moscow. Shortly thereafter, a concerted, three-week cyberattack crippled Estonian government agencies, banks, news outlets, and other organizations—a vital blow to what some have called "the most wired country in Europe." Estonian officials blamed the Kremlin for the cyberattacks, a claim Russian officials vociferously denied.
Putin asserts that Russia has "the right to protect Russian-speaking populations" beyond its borders.

Linas Linkevicius, Lithuania's foreign minister, responded on Saturday by invoking Article 4 of the North Atlantic Treaty, whereby NATO member states consult one another if their territorial integrity or political independence is threatened, for only the fourth time in the alliance's history (Ukraine is not a NATO member).

Lithuania and its Baltic neighbors "are certainly very worried that what is happening to Ukraine today could happen to them tomorrow," Brattberg told me, noting that both Estonia and Latvia have "significant Russian ethnic minorities." Russian President Vladimir Putin asserted on Saturday that Russia retains the right to protect Russian-speaking populations in Crimea and eastern Ukraine. Both the NATO ambassadors and the NATO-Ukraine Commission will meet tomorrow to plan the alliance's response to the unfolding crisis.

Russia has only one remaining ally in the region: Belarus, often referred to as "the last dictatorship in Europe." Ukraine's northern neighbor has mirrored Russian rhetoric about Ukraine by condemning what it described as "radical and unlawful methods of settling domestic disputes" by pro-European Ukrainians. Alexander Lukashenko, the country's autocratic president for the last two decades, quashed a Belorussian protest movement in 2010, during his rigged presidential election, that was similar to Ukraine's. Lukashenko's ability to influence events in Ukraine is nevertheless "slim," according to Brattberg.

Other European powers see reflections of their own history in the Crimean crisis. Czech President Milos Zeman said Russia's intervention reminded him of the Soviet-led military suppression of Czechoslovakia's Prague Spring in 1968. Poland, a key EU power broker in Eastern Europe, said it stood ready to "facilitate the stabilization of the situation" in Ukraine. Iurie Leanca, Moldova's prime minister, compared Russia's actions this week to its role in the separatist region of Transnistria in his own country. Moscow uses its suzerainty over that thin, heavily industrialized strip of territory on the Moldovan-Ukrainian border, whose 500,000 residents are mostly ethnic Russians, to frustrate Moldovan efforts towards European integration.

Lithuanian President Dalia Grybauskaite also openly expressed fears that Russia's actions could ultimately lead to Crimea's annexation. "These signs are extremely worrying. They show a certain preparation and assumptions related to the occupation of [Ukrainian territory]," Grybauskaite told Lithuanian media outlets, calling the Russian deployment of troops in Ukraine "damnable." But not all of Eastern Europe's diplomatic barbs are aimed Moscow. Marko Mihkelson, who chairs the Estonian parliament's foreign policy committee, tweeted on Saturday, "If West does not wake up to Russian aggressive foreign policy, tomorrow will be too late."


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:00 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I hope to hell we don't get involved, despite whatever promises old men with no actual skin in the game made 20 years ago. Sending our soldiers to die just so we don't look weak is piss fucking poor leadership.


It's not about looking weak it is about being able to lead. If we don't honor our promise and Ukrainians are slaughtered and the country is divided into separate countries we will have lost our influence and ability to lead.

Death of our citizens is the hardest part but they signed up knowing this was a possibility. I don't believe we would lose many lives. That being said when you make yourself the world police then you have to honor the pledges you make despite the sacrifice of lives.

They did sign up knowing its a possibility, but that doesn't make it right to use that possibility wrecklessly. One of the reasons I despise politicians so much is that this is all just a political game to them. It won't be their sons and daughters over there. We need to stop making promises to enter wars we have no business being in and we have to stop acting like we are the world police, and then maybe we won't have to spend a trillion goddamn dollars every year just to feel safe. This would be a good moment to change that. Good leadership isn't about trying to show how big your dick is on the international stage, and no matter how much you guys try to couch it in bullshit political games, that's all this is.

Let every man who says we must honor this promise pick up an M16 and go fight. I'm sick and tired of hearing people who have no skin in the game talk about where and when our soldiers must go to fight.


Bottom line is Obama has said there will be consequences, so we shall see what he does. I am not advocating sending in troops immediately (that's ridiculous) but we shall see if Obama makes good on sanctions against Russia and inflicts some very real economic pain on Putin's nation.

Clearly Putin is well educated in chess and his move is (was) to mobilize the troops and get them in the theatre and operate from a position of strength.

Now we shall see what the world does. Will we curtail Putin or let him take what he wants??

Will we take a hard stance and start placing highly draconian sanctions against Russia or will we be Jimmy Carter esqe and talk talk talk and do basically nothing and be a de facto puppet of Putin??


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:03 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I hope to hell we don't get involved, despite whatever promises old men with no actual skin in the game made 20 years ago. Sending our soldiers to die just so we don't look weak is piss fucking poor leadership.


It's not about looking weak it is about being able to lead. If we don't honor our promise and Ukrainians are slaughtered and the country is divided into separate countries we will have lost our influence and ability to lead.

Death of our citizens is the hardest part but they signed up knowing this was a possibility. I don't believe we would lose many lives. That being said when you make yourself the world police then you have to honor the pledges you make despite the sacrifice of lives.

They did sign up knowing its a possibility, but that doesn't make it right to use that possibility wrecklessly. One of the reasons I despise politicians so much is that this is all just a political game to them. It won't be their sons and daughters over there. We need to stop making promises to enter wars we have no business being in and we have to stop acting like we are the world police, and then maybe we won't have to spend a trillion goddamn dollars every year just to feel safe. This would be a good moment to change that. Good leadership isn't about trying to show how big your dick is on the international stage, and no matter how much you guys try to couch it in bullshit political games, that's all this is.

Let every man who says we must honor this promise pick up an M16 and go fight. I'm sick and tired of hearing people who have no skin in the game talk about where and when our soldiers must go to fight.


Yep. They're chicken hawks, plain and simple. It's sickening that it's a big political game when people go to die. It's sad that our citizens don't become more outraged by it (including myself - I bitch about it but do nothing to change it). There's too much nationalism in the U.S. Just slap on a bumper sticker that says "I support our troops" and you're a patriot! No need to actually sacrifice or participate in any overseas endeavors!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:17 pm 
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I wear a flag pin on my lapel, to let people know that I am a real patriot. Often, I will randomly add the word "freedom" to sentences, to make sure others know.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:25 pm 
John Kerry this morning wrote:
“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretexts in order to assert your interests,”


CNN politics article from 2004 wrote:
Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry said Monday he would not have changed his vote to authorize the war against Iraq,

John Kerry. Who you Crappin?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:30 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
John Kerry this morning wrote:
“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretexts in order to assert your interests,”


CNN politics article from 2004 wrote:
Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry said Monday he would not have changed his vote to authorize the war against Iraq,

John Kerry. Who you Crappin?

I'd like to think in 1971 John Kerry would have volunteered to be the last man to die in Vietnam if he knew what he would turn into 40+ years later.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:40 pm 
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Chus wrote:
I wear a flag pin on my lapel, to let people know that I am a real patriot. Often, I will randomly add the word "freedom" to sentences, to make sure others know.


Sometimes I burst into singing "God Bless America" while at social functions. It's not even voluntary. I'm just so patriotic that it happens. After I'm done, I don't even remember what happened. I think George Washington himself is speaking through me.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:45 pm 
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Not a bad article by Rubio.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... z2ulQiuadw



By MARCO RUBIO

March 01, 2014

Russia’s illegal military incursion in the Crimea region in Ukraine is a grave violation of a nation’s sovereignty and cannot go unpunished.

First, President Obama should speak unequivocally and call this what it is: a military invasion. The Obama administration must publicly acknowledge that its “reset” with Russia is dead. The president must now accept that the only way to deal with tyrants like Vladimir Putin is with a clear understanding that they can’t be trusted and that only decisive action will deter their provocative moves.

Second, President Obama should dispatch Secretary of State John Kerry and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel to Kiev to show U.S. support for Ukraine’s transitional government, and urge our allies in the European Union and NATO to send representatives there as well. The United States should convene an emergency meeting of NATO to develop a strong united response from the trans-Atlantic alliance. And we should send high-level delegations to our allies in Central and Eastern Europe to reinforce the fact that we are standing by them. As part of this work with our allies, we should develop a series of economic and security assurance measures to help the transitional government in Kiev remain stable and carry out a democratic transition.

Third, the United States should rally our allies to boycott this June’s G-8 summit in Sochi, Russia. And if Russian troops do not leave Ukraine immediately, Russia should be expelled from this group altogether.

Fourth, any and all discussions and negotiations with Moscow on any issue unrelated to this crisis, including trade and other matters, should be immediately suspended.

Fifth, the U.S. and our allies should put forward a condemnatory resolution in the United Nations Security Council. A Russian or Chinese veto would make clear to the world the hypocrisy of these governments, since they say they oppose foreign intervention into the affairs of sovereign countries—unless of course they are the ones intervening.

Sixth, we should renew a push for eventual membership in NATO by the Republic of Georgia and aim to provide the country with some of the defensive capabilities the Georgians have requested ever since they were invaded by Russia in 2008.

Seventh, the Obama administration should immediately add more Russian officials to the Magnitsky list, which places travel bans and other sanctions on them – something President Obama failed to do in December. Living in Miami, I have seen in recent years the wave of Russian tourists coming to our city and state to spend money and buy property. Many are government officials or allies whose wealth stems from allegiance to Putin, and we should limit their ability to travel here.

Finally, in the Senate, Majority Leader Harry Reid should immediately halt his effort to force a Senate vote on Rose Gottemoeller next week to be under secretary of state for arms control and international security. As I, Sens. John Cornyn and Jim Risch said yesterday, we shouldn’t even be thinking about arms-control negotiations with Russia anytime soon. And especially not negotiations led by a State Department official, such as Ms. Gottemoeller, who has tried to play down and potentially kept information from Congress and our allies about Russian violations of arms-control agreements.

This is a critical moment in world history. The credibility of the alliances and security assurances that have preserved the international order is at stake. If Putin’s illegal actions are allowed to stand unpunished, it will usher in a dark and dangerous era in world affairs.

Marco Rubio represents Florida in the U.S. Senate.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Lots of good info here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/ ... to-crimea/

5 Things You Should Know About Putin's Incursion Into Crimea

Since the closing ceremonies at the Sochi Olympics concluded, Vladimir Putin has done his best to make clear that he intends to make things as difficult as possible for Ukraine’s new interim government.

First he ordered massive military exercises, involving some 150,000 troops, on Ukraine’s border. While some observers noted that not enough medical units were included to indicate an invasion, it was clearly a provocative act.

Yet, even more worrying has been his actions in Crimea, a semi-autonomous region of Ukraine, which almost perfectly mirror his actions in the run-up to the Russia-Georgia War in 2008.

Pro-Russian separatists, wearing military uniforms without insignias, seized government buildings, airports and communication hubs in the region. Then Russian troops were put on alert to “protect their citizens” in the area. Crimea’s new Prime Minister—himself a Russian citizen—has appealed for Russia’s help.

Now, in what seems to be a false flag operation, Ukraine’s forces have been accused of attacking Crimea’s Interior Ministry. A referendum has been scheduled to decide whether the region will stay in Ukraine or become part of Russia. The Russian Parliament has approved the use of military force in Ukraine and to recall their Ambassador from the US.

Last night President Obama warned Putin of costs for further actions in Crimea and the situation is bound to intensify. Here’s what you need to know:

1. What Is Crimea?


As noted above, Crimea is a semi-autonomous region of Ukraine, which means that while it is part of Ukraine’s sovereign territory, it is largely self governed. A beautiful place located on the Black Sea, with rugged mountains leading to sandy beaches, Crimea is a popular tourist destination.

It is also a tricky place politically. In 1954 Khrushchev decreed that it become part of Ukraine, a move that many in Russia still see as illegitimate. Just over half of the population are ethnic Russians, a quarter are ethnic Ukrainians and most of the remainder are Crimean Tatars who, having been deported by Stalin in 1944, are fiercely anti-Russian.

In 1992, after the collapse of the Soviet Unions, Crimea decided in a referendum to join the newly independent country of Ukraine.

2. Why Russia Wants It

Crimea looms large in Russian history. It was the site of the Crimean War fought in the 1850’s against the French, British and Ottoman Empire . Although Russia lost, the bravery of its soldiers is still a source of Russian pride, much like The Alamo in Texas. Its resort city of Yalta hosted the famous talks between Roosevelt, Stalin and Churchill.

Yet Russia’s interests in Crimea go far beyond nostalgia. As important as the region is for Russian pride, as the map below shows it looms even larger in the geopolitics of the region.



The naval base at Sevastopol, on Crimea’s southwestern tip, is Russia’s only warm water naval base and its primary means of extending force through the Mediterranean. It has been alleged that the port city has been used extensively to supply Bashar al-Assad throughout the current civil war in Syria.

And while the lease agreement with Ukraine regarding the base remains valid until 2047, the majority of the Black Sea coastline is held by NATO allies except for Georgia on the east, which is actively seeking NATO membership, and Ukraine in the north.

Put simply, without a naval base in Crimea Russia is finished as a global military power.

3. Why Ukraine Wants It

Crimea, it should be stressed, is sovereign Ukrainian territory. The region chose to become part of Ukraine, it’s home to a large ethnic Ukrainian population and it’s where Ukrainians go to vacation in the summer. In effect, Crimea is important to Ukraine in the same way that Florida or Texas are important to the United States.

While it’s true that many regions of Crimea, especially Sevastopol and the capital of Simferopol, are avidly pro-Russian, much of it is not. The Tatars especially do not want, under any circumstances, to become Russian citizens.

There is also the matter of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which Ukraine agreed to give up its nuclear weapons and Russia vowed to respect Ukraine’s territorial integrity. By violating the treaty, Putin is signaling that all agreements signed during Russia’s period of weakness in the 90’s are null and void.

4. What We’re Doing About It

Unfortunately, if Putin wants to take Crimea, there’s very little Ukraine, the US or NATO can do about it. Russia has ample military assets in the area and it is doubtful that a shooting war will break out. Any free and fair referendum regarding Crimean sovereignty would be close, but Putin will surely put his finger on the scales, ensuring victory and giving him a veneer of legitimacy.

President Obama held an unscheduled press conference on the events in Crimea yesterday, expressing deep concern and warning Putin that “there will be costs.” There is an intense diplomatic effort underway, involving both Russian and Ukrainian officials, as well as European allies. Again, if Putin is determined, none of this will be effective.

Yet, the West is not wholly without leverage either. While it went mostly unnoticed in the American press, Obama made an unscheduled stop to Vice President Biden’s meeting with Georgia’s Prime Minister Garibashvili and expressed support for creating closer ties and for its aspirations of full NATO membership.

It is this last move that may be the most significant. Russia is no longer a great power. While its military retains some important capabilities, its army is largely made up of ill-equipped and poorly disciplined conscripts, whose families lack the means for them to avoid service. In the 2008 war, Georgia shot down 9 of its planes in less than a week.

5. What Will Be The Consequences?

If Putin does annex Crimea, it will surely bring international condemnation and, quite probably, some form of implicit or explicit trade sanctions. With its weakened economy, that is not something that Russia can easily afford and a downturn can be expected. If the price of oil drops 15%-20%, the country could suffer a crisis on the level of what it endured in the 1990′s.

Putin will also see a military buildup in his backyard. NATO membership for Georgia, with the advanced weapon systems and training it will bring, will surely degrade Russian national security. The port of Batumi (see map above), could also serve as an important military asset.

Perhaps most importantly, annexation of Crimea will mean that Putin has lost Ukraine for good. It will be a transgression that will not be forgotten or forgiven and will speed up European aid and integration.

The Crimean Tatars, with their deep hatred of Russia, will resist Russian sovereignty, possibly resulting in a situation similar to the one in war-torn Chechnya. The Russian President is, in effect, sowing the seeds of conflict for decades to come.

And that is what is so worrying about Putin’s latest moves. They show that he is clearly a desperate man, willing to make a clean break with Ukraine and Europe, risk an acceleration of Georgia’s membership in NATO—an event that he wants to avoid almost as much as losing Ukraine—cripple his own economy and suppress yet another indigenous population. All for little tangible gain.

It appears that Putin feels that he has nothing left to lose.

Corrections: In a previous version of this article I stated that Sevastopol was Russia’s only warm water port. Some readers have pointed out that it would have been more accurate to say that it is its only warm water naval base. There is an additional Black Sea port at Novorossijsk, that Russia has been trying to convert to a suitable Naval base, but hasn’t been able to do so yet.

Also, I stated that Georgia shot down nearly 20 of Russia’s planes in 2008 and that probably exceeded the number of US planes shot down since Vietnam. Although there were reports of that figure at the time, the official estimate now stands at 9, which is far less than the 50 or so US planes shot down in the two wars in Iraq.

I apologize for the errors and thank readers for their corrections. If you see anything else I got wrong, please let me know.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:47 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Chus wrote:
I wear a flag pin on my lapel, to let people know that I am a real patriot. Often, I will randomly add the word "freedom" to sentences, to make sure others know.


Sometimes I burst into singing "God Bless America" while at social functions. It's not even voluntary. I'm just so patriotic that it happens. After I'm done, I don't even remember what happened. I think George Washington himself is speaking through me.


I only wear clothing that is red, white, and/or blue. I will chant "USA! USA! USA!" in the middle of grocery stores, movie theaters, and restaurants. It doesn't matter where I am. I want people to know that I love this country more than they do.

Now, I'm going to play army men, so I too, can be an expert on foreign policy.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:51 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Nas wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I hope to hell we don't get involved, despite whatever promises old men with no actual skin in the game made 20 years ago. Sending our soldiers to die just so we don't look weak is piss fucking poor leadership.


It's not about looking weak it is about being able to lead. If we don't honor our promise and Ukrainians are slaughtered and the country is divided into separate countries we will have lost our influence and ability to lead.

Death of our citizens is the hardest part but they signed up knowing this was a possibility. I don't believe we would lose many lives. That being said when you make yourself the world police then you have to honor the pledges you make despite the sacrifice of lives.

They did sign up knowing its a possibility, but that doesn't make it right to use that possibility wrecklessly. One of the reasons I despise politicians so much is that this is all just a political game to them. It won't be their sons and daughters over there. We need to stop making promises to enter wars we have no business being in and we have to stop acting like we are the world police, and then maybe we won't have to spend a trillion goddamn dollars every year just to feel safe. This would be a good moment to change that. Good leadership isn't about trying to show how big your dick is on the international stage, and no matter how much you guys try to couch it in bullshit political games, that's all this is.

Let every man who says we must honor this promise pick up an M16 and go fight. I'm sick and tired of hearing people who have no skin in the game talk about where and when our soldiers must go to fight.


Has there ever been a time we have gone to war that a large part of our population didn't think the war was reckless and unnecessary? If you don't want to fight in one of these wars then you shouldn't volunteer. They volunteer to do a job that many of us don't want to do. When you accept a job it is your responsibility to do it. Regardless of if it is fighting in the military or flipping burgers at McDonald's. You're right some politicians do just believe it is a political game but a lot of them have put their lives on the line in defense of our country. Some have had members of their family pay the ultimate price for their service.

I don't believe we should be the police of the world either. Right now it is a role that we have assumed and one that has been forced upon us by so many nations around the world. When you assume that role and you make promises then you should keep them. If you set the precedent of reneging on those pledges it could cause chaos and have more blood shed around the world. That chaos would cause many more problems than standing with Ukraine and not allowing their citizens to get slaughtered could.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:19 pm 
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Chus wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Chus wrote:
I wear a flag pin on my lapel, to let people know that I am a real patriot. Often, I will randomly add the word "freedom" to sentences, to make sure others know.


Sometimes I burst into singing "God Bless America" while at social functions. It's not even voluntary. I'm just so patriotic that it happens. After I'm done, I don't even remember what happened. I think George Washington himself is speaking through me.


I only wear clothing that is red, white, and/or blue. I will chant "USA! USA! USA!" in the middle of grocery stores, movie theaters, and restaurants. It doesn't matter where I am. I want people to know that I love this country more than they do.

Now, I'm going to play army men, so I too, can be an expert on foreign policy.

While I appreciate your Patriotism, don't think for a second that you are more Patriotic than I am. I love America more than anyone.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:26 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Chus wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Chus wrote:
I wear a flag pin on my lapel, to let people know that I am a real patriot. Often, I will randomly add the word "freedom" to sentences, to make sure others know.


Sometimes I burst into singing "God Bless America" while at social functions. It's not even voluntary. I'm just so patriotic that it happens. After I'm done, I don't even remember what happened. I think George Washington himself is speaking through me.


I only wear clothing that is red, white, and/or blue. I will chant "USA! USA! USA!" in the middle of grocery stores, movie theaters, and restaurants. It doesn't matter where I am. I want people to know that I love this country more than they do.

Now, I'm going to play army men, so I too, can be an expert on foreign policy.

While I appreciate your Patriotism, don't think for a second that you are more Patriotic than I am. I love America more than anyone.


I definitely am because I have the following bumper stickers:

"Why do I have to press 1 for English?"
"These colors don't run"
"Nobama"
"Charlton Heston is my president"
"Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot"

There is a huge sticker of an eagle wrapped in an American flag, on the back window. You live on the east coast, with the rest of those pinko commie liberals.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:45 pm 
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My favorite that is in the prime rotation in my closet that is also painted red, white and blue.

Understated with a hint of brashness that helped define this great nation. Isn't too loud but has enough on it that puts the Muslims and illegal immigrants on notice and lets them know that this is my America and they should probably leave.

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:48 pm 
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My excrement smells like amber waves of grain.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:02 pm 
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Think I will break out my Clancy Red Storm Rising for another read.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:02 pm 
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I bombed a bunch of brown people because I suspected one of them may have wished harm on us. I win.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:08 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I bombed a bunch of brown people because I suspected one of them may have wished harm on us. I win.


Wow. Way to kill the mood.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:09 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I bombed a bunch of brown people because I suspected one of them may have wished harm on us. I win.


You're years late on this one, pal.

Bombing a wedding, funeral or birthday celebration will still garner you plenty of cred.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:11 pm 
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I have American flags and a gun. I love apple pie. I have a dog with the name Liberty.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:13 pm 
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Well, this thread went to shirt.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:16 pm 
NearWessSideHussra wrote:
Well, this thread went to shirt.

Chas tried his best at it. We succeeded.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:17 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
NearWessSideHussra wrote:
Well, this thread went to shirt.

Chas tried his best at it. We succeeded.

Does this mean the terrorists won or lost?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:18 pm 
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NearWessSideHussra wrote:
Well, this thread went to shirt.


It's how we cope.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:20 pm 
donspiracy wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
NearWessSideHussra wrote:
Well, this thread went to shirt.

Chas tried his best at it. We succeeded.

Does this mean the terrorists won or lost?

Not sure. Do you have Lee Greenwood on your iPod?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:34 pm 
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NearWessSideHussra wrote:
Well, this thread went to shirt.


Making fun of Big Bully Chas is an easy thing to do.

Get used to it.


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