Yes. Ok well maybe once again I am not making my point very well. I guess I am exasperated by the fact that a 1st rd draft pick does not always help. This may be a bigger problem than all of the other stuff we talk about as far as trying to unseat the current "great team" of the NBA. There are 32 teams? Are there not enough players in the world that all first round picks should be able to play and you find a diamond? Maybe not for the team that drafted them but somewhere? I am amazed that I have no idea and there are zero stars from the last 2 drafts?

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Elections have consequences.

Anthony Davis and Damian Lillard are stars. Michael Carter Williams is going to be a star. There are at least 3 stars from the past two drafts.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Mike, with a 12-man roster, there are 384 active players in the NBA. If you took the top 20 picks each year from the last ten years, that's 200 players right there. And many players play more than ten years. It stands to reason that most 1st round picks are just "guys." 384 players would only amount to roughly 7 NFL teams.

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In addition to this ^, expecting more 'stars' out of the first round over the past 10 years or so means assuming there is a surplus of 6'5 + freakishly athletic guys with wingspans as wide as jumbo jets and 40+ verticals to match, in addition to above average basketball intelligence. There aren't simply enough guys out there like that, hence the scarcity of extraordinary drafts from year to year. In other words, there are more Arian Fosters out there than there are guys like Paul Pierce, let alone LBJ and Duncan.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Well JORR won something like $1200 on him so he will probably love him forever.

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Walt is also happy that a pitcher from his generation has 500 wins.

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Another way to look at it is there are 5 positions to fill. If you are picking toward the bottom of the draft you are likely getting the 5th to 8th best prospect at that position (keeping in mind that it's rare these days to have more than 1 or 2 actual centers worthy of a 1st round pick). Most are tweeners or projects. Many are 19 years old who are picked based upon high school hype.

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“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

Sean Elliot

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Another feather in this ol fogey's hat

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

When did I say that, you cranky old goat? I said he was the best horse of his generation. I'll stick with that. Though Will Take Charge might have been if Lukas had had the sense to take the blinkers off sooner.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

LeBron is ahead of schedule on catching Jordan

In what way, beside MVP awards?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Well, MVP awards is a pretty good one, but Id say overall dominance of the league

He's not even ahead of Kobe with that.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah, I would disagree with that. He made the Finals one time in Cleveland and got swept. Jordan couldn't get past Boston either, but Bird, McHale, Parish, Ainge, Johnson, etc were probably a bit tougher than Pierce, KG, Ray, and Rondo.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Yes, he is.

He's clearly by far the best player in the league and has been for 6 years. Kobe never had a run like that.


27.5 ppg, 6.9 assists, 7.2 rebounds, 1.7 steals, 2 titles (Finals MVP in both) and 4 MVP awards.

Sure, but Jordan's team was better than the Cleveland team too.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Through 11 years, Jordan and LeBron's accomplishments are pretty close

Yeah, which doesn't bode well for LeBron, since the back 9 of Jordan's career was decidedly more accomplished than the front 9. It's also a more watered down league now and has rule changes in place that allow offensive players to basically do whatever they want. It's an easier game to dominate.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't really think they are. On the numbers LeBron is clearly the superior player. And in the era of statistical analysis, isn't that how we judge players?

Personally, I see TWTW in Jordan that LeBron lacks, but I don't think it's fair to mock Ken Harrelson for saying it and then using it when it suits our argument that Jordan was the greatest that ever was, the greatest that ever will be.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Well, LeBron cant control that. Jordan's league was more watered down than Chamberlain's right?


I think LeBron is on the road to being discussed as the greatest ever along with Jordan

Well, that's certainly not true.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Of course it is. In terms of tangible accomplishments, it's not even debatable.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What are you talking about? His best seasons were from '86 to '90? If you're going to use championships as a criterion, let's get Robert Horry in the discussion.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Has Lebron really dominated the league though? I know he has a lot of MVP awards, and he is good at putting up a balanced stat line, but some of that includes his days prior to Miami where his teams were far from dominant.

It's just way too subjective.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What if LeBron finishes with 7 MVP's, 4 titles, 4 finals MVPs and stats similar to his current ones?

Lebron is the more well rounded player, but if we really play that game then Jordan probably isn't in the top 10 players of all time either.

That is the problem. If Lebron is better because of superior ability to rebound and block shots, then so are other players. We basically lose every player in NBA history who wasn't tall enough to at least play power forward then.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He needs at least 6 titles, especially with how he chose to win them in Miami.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well, I find it unreasonable to say Jordan is better than any of the great centers, but that argument is unwinnable on a Chicago sports fan message board.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Don't use the strawman of Horry on me, wont work. There's a reason I used the word tangible. It makes it a non-discussion. Of course championships and Finals MVPs are tangible accomplishments. But I'm also talking about MVPs, All-NBA teams, scoring titles, etc. Out of the 13 seasons he played here, the majority of those accolades came in the 2nd half of his run here.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul