I believe I just adequately debunked that.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Not really.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah, I looked at those too quickly and compared their per 36/mpg stats.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... ami01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... sle01.html

Anyway, just click on those links. LeBron has not been a clearly superior statistical player in their best seasons, and Jordan's Wizard days are included at the end. Like Rick pointed out, that will likely happen to LeBron too.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Yes really, Jorr. I posted the links to both pages. If you want to bring up Sabr-like stats and make reference to LeBron being superior, you would be wrong.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Wilt only won 2 titles. I would have thought a few more.

Not enough TWTW. Really. He'd rather look good and lose than look bad and win.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The problem with that line is Sydney never looked good because he dribbled at eye level

He was too busy lining up fuck buddies to pad his stats.

That would be a poor way to look at my comment. I did say that if he won 10 straight titles that he would prove he was better than Jordan. It may have been some over exaggeration though. You seem to know my thoughts better than I do on this though so you'll have to answer that.

Of course you discount them. Blocks and rebounds for a guard are low on the list of important statistical categories. You give me the best rebounding guard of all time. I'll take the best scoring guard of all time.



Again, if you want to think Lebron is better because he is a better rebounder that is your choice. I don't care that much about rebounds and blocks. If you do, then Lebron is a better player, but so are many other former NBA players.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

First of all, I have to laugh at saying I know your thoughts better than you. You bring up old threads and quotes as much as anyone.


That is a terrible way to judge...anything.

You dont discount events that transpired because they arent usual.

The fact that LeBron is able to rebound better while still being the 3rd leading scorer of all time should be considered.


You're not talking about the best player. You're talking about the best scorer.

And you're clearly biased on this, right? You dont want LeBron to be better and you were very dissappointed with him going to Miami right?

What type of rebounder would LeBron be if he had Rodman on his team?????

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

It's considered. It just isn't weighted heavily. You disagree. That's why you think Lebron is better. It's all those rebounds. I think Jordan is better because he was a better scorer.
There is a pretty strong correlation there. Results and titles matter too.
Are you sure it isn't bias because I hate Jay Cutler? I'm done with the bias card. If you want to think I hate Lebron too then go ahead.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ok, you were totally discounting it 10 minutes ago.

I havent said LeBron is better. That is factually inaccurate.


Im asking you if you're biased. Havent you made all sorts of comments about being disappointed by LeBron?

Bias exists Rick. You cant really be done with it. Stop being so upset when someone calls you on it. Were all biased on some things. You arent the only one who gets that label.

You're just the only one who freaks out.

And btw, you absolutely were biased on Jay Cutler. Its ok. A lot of us were.

Not to be a jerk, but discounting does not necessarily mean ignoring. My whole point is that if we start holding other stats over Jordan that didn't really define him as a player, then we open the floodgates for a bunch of other players to jump him too. Jordan isn't one of the top 10 most well rounded players of all time.


If we are all biased why mention it?

Yes, I was disappointed with Lebron taking the easy way to titles, and how it would be hard to prove he was better than Jordan because I thought he would be. I don't know what that has to do with you thinking he could win 3 or 4 titles and be better. The whole point here is that it is almost impossible to say he is better when he is winning with a team of future hall of famers.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Why bring it up? Because youve specifically stated being upset and how his decision to go to Miami pretty much ended any chance he had to be the goat

Jordan is absolutely one of the most well rounded players ever

and I have to laugh at "team of hall of famers" Wade has not been a hall of fame player in the title years and neither has Allen.

And again, Jordan had 2 hall of famers in his starting 5.

He probably still has been.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You don't necessarily have to play at a HoF level to reap the benefits of being a HoF player. We can agree on the irrelevance of Allen in terms of being a HoF player in Miami. As for Wade, his reputation certainly helped matters when paired with James in his past two less than stellar years. The reputation alone forces defenses to account for both, and makes things easier for both in terms of help defense, cutting, spacing, etc. And as much as many of us won't like it, Bosh's numbers may elicit HoF consideration in the end. He made an argument for himself awhile ago mainly based on the numbers he put up in Toronto and it sounded compelling. This is not my argument but his, and I'm just saying it made some sense on numbers alone. I wouldn't be upset if he missed out on the HoF.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

This is an interesting comment.


If you really want to compare players at the current ability level, let's count the number of all stars that Jordan played with. The answer would be 1 other player who was currently an all star in his whole career.

Also, that may qualify for this:

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Sometimes

NBA all star appearances are a terrible way to judge things.

Pippen was better than Wade. Rodman/Grant were better than Bosh.


And no, that is not putting Heat players down. Wade is a great player who has been a hall of fame player at times (mostly before LeBron was there) and Bosh is a solid above average power forward.

Overall, he has been. He's still been one of the best 2-3 SG's in the league and the 2nd best player on back-to-back championship teams.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The rpb index isn't much better. If you want, you can post the stats of Rodman and Grant on the championship teams and then post Bosh's stats on the championship teams. My guess is that besides rebounds for Rodman, that Bosh outclasses both of them.
I think so, but it's not the wide margin that you think.
No. Rodman at one point may have been but certainly not with the Bulls. Bosh has been one of the best post players in the league for most of his career.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

No, it IS a lot better because I can see things that arent black and white. I can see that Yao Ming wasnt a great player in the years he didnt play.




Rodman's greatness never completely showed in stats. Pippen too.

I dont want to have this argument again though. We just disagree. You seemingly think that Bosh/Wade is better than Pippen/Grant or Rodman. I wholeheartedly disagree.


Also, a separate issue, this idea that Rodman was a shell of his former self on the Bulls is insane. He was the same dominant defender and rebounder he always was.

No, I think it's mostly a wash. Pippen is the best player of that group, but Wade is the second best and Bosh is better than Grant or Rodman.

I certainly don't think the difference there is so huge that Lebron could be better than Jordan winning only 3 titles like you do.

Get to 5 and we can talk. Get to 6 and it may be tough to argue against.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm going to go full meatball.

There are no stats that could make me change my mind between Jordan and Lebron. Jordan was better because he wanted to destroy and humiliate his opponents. He made his whole team better simply because of his mindset. Just look at the guy now. He is a weirdo who seems depressed all the time. He lived for it. I bet Lebron loves his post-playing days because he can hang out on South Beach and make movies or something stupid.

Physically, Lebron is probably even more talented than Jordan, but their mindsets are completely different. Give me Jordan all day, every day.

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Good, I was just going to ask what LeBron can do to convince you.


But the way you say he won on a team of hall of famers in this LBJ vs MJ argument it suggests that Jordan did it with less. If you think its a wash, you've not really expressed that well.


I think he'll end up with 5 titles, 5 Finals MVPs and 8 League MVPs and it will be an either or argument with him and Jordan for a long time.

I agree with all of that other than the never statement.

If LeBron ends up with more titles and better numbers, Ill have to admit he's better

I agree with that 100%, but I also believe that the vast majority of NBA fans in Chicago could never be convinced that anyone was better than Jordan regardless of what that guy did.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Probably true. I'll admit that not all of my analysis is unbiased. I grew up with Jordan, and I'm sure some of what I remember is embellished based on my perspective back then.

There is one play that to me sums up how Jordan was. It was against the Knicks in the '92? playoffs... he was trapped on the baseline by Oakley and Starks, snaked around them (amazingly) and threw it down on top of Ewing. It epitomized Jordan to me. The dude just wanted it more. Eat it, Bernstein! #TWTW

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