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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:19 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Well since there wasn't a way to legitimately blame this on Obama, I see you kids have finally sucessfully derailed the discussion completely. Nice going. :roll:

:lol:

What are you mad at? That people aren't criticizing Obama? That the thread got derailed a bit? Threads evolve. It's really nothing to get upset about...
Just more playing of the Obama victim card.

The Thanks, Obama memes are really jumping the shark. The guy is a terrible president. He deserves to be criticized.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:25 pm 
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Up to date summary

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:40 pm 
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IkeSouth wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Let's make this real simple.

Let's say that Bill O'Reilly says something stupid. No one ever says "Well, he's just a comedian".
Let's say that Bill Maher says something stupid. He gets defended by "Well, he's just a comedian".

Now, that's fine. However, Maher doesn't stop being a comedian when he says something else then. The same reason why his bad thought is understandable/acceptable/ignorable exists for his good thought.

To put it another way, I'm a little sick of "comedians" who do political humor putting themselves in a position where they have shelter. Stewart has basically built his brand around that. Take me seriously when it's convenient. Treat me as an entertainer when it's convenient.


bill oreilly shelters himself just as much as any comedian. if he knows hes wrong, he just starts shouting and proclaiming hes right.


He had one of the most sexist segments you'll see on tv recently.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 6:42 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Well since there wasn't a way to legitimately blame this on Obama, I see you kids have finally sucessfully derailed the discussion completely. Nice going. :roll:

:lol:

What are you mad at? That people aren't criticizing Obama? That the thread got derailed a bit? Threads evolve. It's really nothing to get upset about...
Just more playing of the Obama victim card.

The Thanks, Obama memes are really jumping the shark. The guy is a terrible president. He deserves to be criticized.


Obama is a great president. Why are the republicans trying to dim his lights?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:05 pm 
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Nas wrote:

Obama is a great president. Why are the republicans trying to dim his lights?


Because they hate America.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:07 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Obama is a great president.

You do not really believe this

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:10 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Let's make this real simple.

Let's say that Bill O'Reilly says something stupid. No one ever says "Well, he's just a comedian".
Let's say that Bill Maher says something stupid. He gets defended by "Well, he's just a comedian".

Now, that's fine. However, Maher doesn't stop being a comedian when he says something else then. The same reason why his bad thought is understandable/acceptable/ignorable exists for his good thought.

To put it another way, I'm a little sick of "comedians" who do political humor putting themselves in a position where they have shelter. Stewart has basically built his brand around that. Take me seriously when it's convenient. Treat me as an entertainer when it's convenient.


THIS

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:10 pm 
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The Ukraine won 5 medals on the first day of the Paralympics .... is that something to brag about or not?

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Last edited by Don Tiny on Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:13 pm 
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IkeSouth wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Let's make this real simple.

Let's say that Bill O'Reilly says something stupid. No one ever says "Well, he's just a comedian".
Let's say that Bill Maher says something stupid. He gets defended by "Well, he's just a comedian".

Now, that's fine. However, Maher doesn't stop being a comedian when he says something else then. The same reason why his bad thought is understandable/acceptable/ignorable exists for his good thought.

To put it another way, I'm a little sick of "comedians" who do political humor putting themselves in a position where they have shelter. Stewart has basically built his brand around that. Take me seriously when it's convenient. Treat me as an entertainer when it's convenient.


bill oreilly shelters himself just as much as any comedian. if he knows hes wrong, he just starts shouting and proclaiming hes right.


Bull Fucking Shit Ike. He is the face of a network and takes tons of bullets and arrows for what he does. Idiot.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:15 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Obama is a great president. Why are the republicans trying to dim his lights?


You are trolling. You said yourself you are disappointed.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:25 pm 
I made the post because this was actually a good thread. Unfortunately you can tell by the posts both on here and on FB and Twitter that CPAC is this weekend.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:57 pm 
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In fairness to Stewart, he doesn't seem to be doing the "oh I'm just a comedian" thing quite as much as he did circa 2005 when he was going after Crossfire. The Daily Show in general has changed for the better since then by shifting its focus from Bush to cable news coverage, though obviously it's a change they had to make.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 10:09 am 
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/09/leslie-h-gelb-cut-the-baloney-on-ukraine.html

Cut The Baloney On Ukraine
All countries must stop their lies and self-destructive posturing or pay costs they’re loath to admit.
Leslie H. Gelb

Russians, Americans, Europeans, and Ukrainians plunge on toward the all-time foreign policy record for venality, lying, hypocrisy and self-destructive maneuvers. They show no shame and scant regard for consequences. At this moment, Russia is the most to blame for having transformed a very bad situation into a crisis. Top U.S. officials contribute with their daily evocation of saintly principles that the United States itself has often defied. Experts and politicians goad the White House on with demands for tough actions against Russia that they surely know will fail. Europeans continue their feckless ways. And most Ukrainian leaders of all stripes and ethnicities remain monumentally corrupt and rhetorically dishonest.

This pile of garbage and ineptitude is heading in one direction—toward a long-term crisis very costly to all. There will be little or no diplomatic cooperation anywhere in the world. The economies of all will suffer. No, there won’t be a war between the West and Russia, but the resulting new peace will be ugly. Everyday this future looks more inevitable.

There’s one chance to turn things around, but it’s a long shot. All leaders involved have to turn down their “explanations” and self-justifications. They have to stop threats and sanctions for the time being. Everyone knows these actions won’t go away and that diplomatic failure would soon call them forth again. And just for the moment, everyone’s objective should be to help President Vladimir Putin climb down from his perilous perch. If there’s to be an agreement, everyone knows what it must be: Russia proclaims and Ukraine accepts greater autonomy for Crimea within a still united Ukraine.

At this point in the turmoil, it’s easy to forget that Ukraine itself is the root of the problem. Its deposed leader, Viktor Yanukovych, was a crook. What’s worse is that he was a democratically elected crook. Still worse, his dual predecessors Viktor Yushchenko and Yulia Tymoshenko (the one just let out of jail) were crooks too, and they were only three of many kleptocratic pretenders to power. Dozens were getting spectacularly wealthy while most Ukrainians struggled. It was no surprise, then, that thousands took to the Maidan in the dead of winter to protest. Even Putin acknowledged that they had good reasons to be fed up.

In February, the shootings began in the Maidan where scores were killed and wounded. And the truth of the matter is that no one has come forward with proof of whether the snipers were from Yanukovych’s security forces or from rightwing Ukrainian groups or both.

Then, Yanukovych scampered off to Russia. We can only thank some celestial power that he did not seek refuge in the United States. The Ukrainians who succeeded Yanukovych in power proceeded to pass laws that would sharply disadvantage Russian citizens and speakers. Most ominously, a law permitting the use of Russian as an official language in select regions was revoked.

If anyone were close to this incipient Ukrainian nightmare months ago and in a position to head it off, it was Western European leaders. They did almost everything wrong. They enticed Yanukovych into an economic deal that would have gradually diminished Russian influence in Ukraine. That was a severe challenge to Moscow. Putin responded by forcing Yanukovych to scrap this European deal and to keep his country in the so-called “near abroad.” Putin spiced the pressure with a $15 billion grant offer. (By the way, Ukraine is deeply in debt and proved itself incapable of meeting austerity plans developed by the IMF and the Europeans.) Wasn’t there a single European leader knowledgeable enough to realize the need to make a joint European-Russian arrangement with Ukraine? After this Euro-Russian tug of war, the sparks ignited in Kiev and Moscow.

Predictably, the Russians did what the Russians do best: they started to grab and muscle everyone and everything in sight, and to sing out loudly their own chorus of lies. They dispatched their out-of-uniform troops to Ukrainian soil, denying the Moscow connection. (Apparently, they wanted us to believe the troops were pixies from Mars.) Evidently, they gave no heed to the political effects such lies would have in the West. Moscow also claimed that the occasional harassment of Russian speakers in Crimea and elsewhere in Ukraine amounted to Kiev inspired existential persecution. Sure, there were excesses against the Russian speakers, but there is no evidence of this being widespread or seriously threatening. Nastiest of all, Moscow either inspired or did nothing to stop the move in the Crimean Parliament to approve a referendum set for March 16th on the re-absorption of Crimea into Russia. Indeed, Russian leaders now seem to be supporting the vote. There is a short fuse and a certain explosion at the end of this piece of treachery.

Last but not least are our very own American heroes. Hilary Clinton, of course, hit the jackpot with her comparison of Putin to Hitler (never mind her clarification the next day). This egregious and dangerous pandering to American conservatives and humanitarian interventionists reflected the direction of American politics. Non-stop accusations against Putin and Russia make it increasingly difficult to pursue a sensible foreign policy course.

President Obama, Secretary of State John Kerry, and the State Department were not to be outdone by their domestic critics. They preached obedience to constitutions, namely the Ukrainian one, when we often ignore others’ constitutions ourselves. American leaders said nothing, for example, when the Union Republics in the Soviet Union established their independence without a constitutionally required vote in Moscow. As well, the Obama/Kerry clan shouted their devotion to democratic principles and free elections. But wasn’t President Yanukovych chosen in a free and fair election? One heard no American protests about his victory in 2010 or his extra-legal forced departure a few weeks ago. And as for Washington’s record of vigorously and rigorously upholding the territorial integrity of nations, that’s also a load of baloney. President George W. Bush recognized the independence of Kosovo, a province of Serbia, despite previous commitments not to do so and strenuous Russian objections.

No experienced international hand expects the United States or Russia to practice what they preach. To be a great power with far-flung interests of different natures is to invite hypocrisy. But when our leaders, Republicans and Democrats, let their own rank baloney run away with them, serious diplomacy goes down the drain. The breakaway referendum in Crimea is a mere week away and is a gun to all heads.

As it stands today, the Russians may feel that they can get away with their power grab. They did before and with—guess who—the fearless and tough minded George W. Bush. Putin surely remembers how little Bush did to punish Moscow for its meddling in Georgia in 2008 or for its practical annexation of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Bush imposed modest economic sanctions, which were soon forgotten. Doubtless, Putin recalls these salient precedents on his own borders when he thinks about Crimea. Perhaps he now reckons that once again there will be no serious consequences for his territorial lust.

At this stage, it’s going to be hard as hell to salvage matters. For there to be any chance, all parties have to stop the venal and viral vitriol. It makes compromise impossible. In the first place, that means the State Department can’t publish another list of Putin’s lies. (Can you believe they did that?) Russians have to cut out their nonsense as well.

Second, Europeans and Americans have to stare hard at the likelihood that perpetual crisis over Ukraine will endanger essential Russian cooperation on Syria, Iran, Afghanistan, arms control, and on increasingly tricky relations with China.

Third, Putin needs to face facts about the damage he is doing to his own country’s future. Doubtless, Western economic sanctions will not bring Russia to its knees, but that’s not the point. They will hurt Russian economic development, and that’s quite serious. And Putin should not forget his interests in cooperating with Washington to fight Islamic extremis in the Mideast and in staying close to Washington to avoid weakening his bargaining position vis-à-vis Beijing. In Moscow, these costs will loom larger in six months or a year from now than they do today.

Fourth, it’s perfectly obvious what a settlement must look like, if a settlement can be reached. The solution is to establish greater autonomy for Crimea within a Ukraine that belongs neither to Europe nor to Russia. This is the Finland approach as suggested by both Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger.

Yes, such a package now looks ever more remote, but one thing is certain. It will be beyond reach entirely if all parties persist in their prevarications and keep closing doors.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:51 pm 
Guessing Robert Gates won't be invited back to Fox again after going on and sounding like a logical thinker.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:41 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Guessing Robert Gates won't be invited back to Fox again after going on and sounding like a logical thinker.


former defense secretary Robert Gates unleashes harsh judgments about President Obama’s leadership
This Robert Gates or some other one?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:08 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Guessing Robert Gates won't be invited back to Fox again after going on and sounding like a logical thinker.


former defense secretary Robert Gates unleashes harsh judgments about President Obama’s leadership
This Robert Gates or some other one?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html


That book is next on my list. Got it a month or 2 ago.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:35 pm 
Seacrest do you have the fist clue what I'm talking about?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:10 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Guessing Robert Gates won't be invited back to Fox again after going on and sounding like a logical thinker.


former defense secretary Robert Gates unleashes harsh judgments about President Obama’s leadership
This Robert Gates or some other one?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/nat ... story.html


That book is next on my list. Got it a month or 2 ago.


My daughter gave me "Decision Points" 2 years ago and I still haven't read it.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:16 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Seacrest do you have the fist clue what I'm talking about?


If you were referring to a different Robert Gates, then do share.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:07 am 
Hmmmm I said Robert Gates. I meant Robert Gates. If you don't have the first clue what he said on Fox News Sunday today that would cause me to say that, then why would you comment with something 2 months old.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:10 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Hmmmm I said Robert Gates. I meant Robert Gates. If you don't have the first clue what he said on Fox News Sunday today that would cause me to say that, then why would you comment with something 2 months old.

I'm just curious. .. why do you watch fox news?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:25 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Nas wrote:
Obama is a great president.

You do not really believe this

No one does.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:26 am 
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Why were you guys arguing Fox news a couple pages ago?


I dont think anyone here ever defends Fox. We all agree on that.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:43 am 
Darkside wrote:
Baby McNown wrote:
Hmmmm I said Robert Gates. I meant Robert Gates. If you don't have the first clue what he said on Fox News Sunday today that would cause me to say that, then why would you comment with something 2 months old.

I'm just curious. .. why do you watch fox news?

It's the most watched cable news channel.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:44 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Why were you guys arguing Fox news a couple pages ago?


I dont think anyone here ever defends Fox. We all agree on that.



To say that no one here ever defends Fox would exhibit a small minded bias among anyone who said that.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:45 am 
Seacrest wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Why were you guys arguing Fox news a couple pages ago?


I dont think anyone here ever defends Fox. We all agree on that.



I don't have the first damn clue what Gates said yesterday, so I'll now avoid the topic.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:51 am 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Why were you guys arguing Fox news a couple pages ago?


I dont think anyone here ever defends Fox. We all agree on that.



I don't have the first damn clue what Gates said yesterday, so I'll now avoid the topic.



I'm done arguing with you Bmac.

Anyone who read excerpts of Gates book and read his quotes on Fox yesterday is free to call WYC this Thursday at 5.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:57 am 
Ahhhhh so you do know what he said, but since it goes against your required criticism of everything Obama has ever done/ will do you are choosing to try to deflect to other things and ignore what he said 24 hours ago. Then when called on it people are "arguing with you". Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:57 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Why were you guys arguing Fox news a couple pages ago?


I dont think anyone here ever defends Fox. We all agree on that.



To say that no one here ever defends Fox would exhibit a small minded bias among anyone who said that.

People may defend certain stories, but I dont see many arguments for the channel in general

Even Scorehead who cites its popularity, says he doesnt watch it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:03 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
Ahhhhh so you do know what he said, but since it goes against your required criticism of everything Obama has ever done/ will do you are choosing to try to deflect to other things and ignore what he said 24 hours ago. Then when called on it people are "arguing with you". Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.


I have no problem yet with what Obama has done recently with Russia.

You have a false premise. Again.

Gates is the one backtracking his previous critique of the POTUS with his comments yesterday.

It's obvious that you are trying to start an issue where none exists.

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