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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:39 am 
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I wonder how his Paul George love is faring also. One of his arguments has also been that the Bulls even if they supplant the Heat will have the mighty Pacers to contend with because they have Paul George as the mighty Derrick Rose stopper. I know Rose's future is in doubt as that "guy" but Paul George has been vastly overrated and so has that team for that matter. They won 49 games last year yet people such as Bernstein had anointed them as world champions because they took the Heat to seven games. We will never know but I believe that a fully healthy Bulls team would have beaten the Heat. It is ironic how the Bulls team that won 62 games was not good enough to beat Miami but a Pacers team that won 49 games was considered the next great thing in the NBA.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:27 am 
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the Pacers are a better team than they are playing like right now. Bad acquisitions.

And I guess I'll be alone on this one, but Paul George is the real deal.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:43 am 
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long time guy wrote:
I wonder how his Paul George love is faring also. One of his arguments has also been that the Bulls even if they supplant the Heat will have the mighty Pacers to contend with because they have Paul George as the mighty Derrick Rose stopper. I know Rose's future is in doubt as that "guy" but Paul George has been vastly overrated and so has that team for that matter. They won 49 games last year yet people such as Bernstein had anointed them as world champions because they took the Heat to seven games. We will never know but I believe that a fully healthy Bulls team would have beaten the Heat. It is ironic how the Bulls team that won 62 games was not good enough to beat Miami but a Pacers team that won 49 games was considered the next great thing in the NBA.

Danny overrates Hibbard just as much. Another guy he'd rather have than Noah.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:47 am 
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Bernstein: New MLB Cameras Will Expose Ignorant Announcers
March 9, 2014 6:06 PM

(CBS) You may have missed the news last week that’s going to change forever how we look at baseball.
It’s understandable if you failed to pay close attention to the eighth annual MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in Boston, but the game improved last week in a way that has general managers and intellectually curious fans drooling. Some insecure longtime scouts will be nervous, however, as will some veteran broadcasters.
I’m looking at you, Hawk Harrelson. You too, Harold Reynolds.
Thanks to a revolutionary system of real-time data-collection via interconnected tracking cameras, three major league ballparks will provide instant information about every single movement on the field. Citi Field in New York, Target Field in Minneapolis and Milwaukee’s Miller Park are already online, up and running for this season. More parks will be ready as this year progresses, and it will be fully implemented across MLB for the start of 2015.
Everything quantifiable, measured either comparably to that of others or as a percentage of an ideal. Seven terabytes per game, accessible by the production truck in time for the first replay and in time to measure the opinion of anyone analyzing what they saw, or – more significantly – what they thought they saw.
As MLB Network’s Brian Kenny tweeted, “Data-haters in sports are about to be left behind … forever.”

So no more, “He took a really good route to that ball.” That now becomes, “Here you see what would have been a perfect route to that ball, and Mike Trout does a remarkable job of keeping 94 percent route-efficiency.”

No more, “Yu Darvish is really getting great rotation on his curveball.” That’s now, “His curve is averaging 1700 RPM, which is 100 more than it did in his last start and 12 percent above league average.”
Really wrap your head around this for a second, because I still don’t think enough awareness has been created about how significant this is.
The speed and vector of each movement can now be known for every player and the ball, all at once. We will see virtual heat maps of defensive range that include not just which balls a fielder gets to but how quickly and from exactly how far away. Baserunners will have their speed, jumps and route-efficiency known, too, as we can see who gives away valuable time with sloppy angles rounding the bags and who doesn’t. Which outfielders’ throws are most often true to perfect trajectory? Which hitters generate the highest batted-ball velocity, and on what pitches and where in the zone? We’re about to know.

Harrelson’s musty brand of “I’ve been around this game a long time” superiority just got vaporized. Right away we can put many cornpone musings about lively bats and good instincts to the test. Maybe he’s right more than not, even. The point is that actual knowledge is supplanting the mysticism of self-appointed witch doctors.
We’ll soon find out if Reynolds was merely playing a part as a wrongheaded public denier of the value of advanced metrics. It’s possible he’s dropping that whole bit as he assumes the lead analyst role for FOX, or he may be risking a real combination of discomfort and embarrassment as the technology of the game passes him by. For him to be hired by the game’s primary broadcast network just as this is happening suggests either that he’s ready to enlighten himself or somebody at FOX made a terrible mistake.
The response from some is inevitable, predictable and trite. Dumb people are afraid of knowing new things or confronting the idea that long-held beliefs are going to be objectively weighed for veracity. It’s a specious argument that the game is rendered less fun when we know more about what is actually happening. Just like that durn Copernicus with all his highfalutin book-larnin’ ruining the non-stop party that was geocentrism.
Bob Bowman is the CEO of MLB Advanced Media, and he told MLB.com that the new data merely adds more richness to how we talk about baseball.
“This is going to be pretty exciting,” he said. “We think it’s going to change the way we argue about the game, but we don’t think it’s going to settle any debates. We think it starts more.”
While he’s dead on about the last part, he’s kidding himself if he doesn’t think that all this new sunlight won’t chase some old misunderstandings scurrying out of the shadows. Harrelson, for one, is fond of prefacing baseless, grandiose opinions in a way that presents them as immutable, eternal truth.
“That’s the way it is,” he likes to say, sounding like an unsettling combination of Walter Cronkite and Paula Deen. “That’s the way it always has been, and that’s the way it always will be.”
And that’s already wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:50 am 
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This is why I watch baseball...to see great route-efficiencies.

OK. It's neat. I get it. But, he is going to be insufferable this season.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:56 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
the Pacers are a better team than they are playing like right now. Bad acquisitions.


The Pacers are somewhat overrated. They have essentially been bum slayers in the East. They are being exposed for what they are in their recent stretch against the West. They struggle to score and they turn the ball over. You can't win like that if your defense doesn't stop your opponent.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:56 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Bernstein: New MLB Cameras Will Expose Ignorant Announcers
March 9, 2014 6:06 PM

(CBS) You may have missed the news last week that’s going to change forever how we look at baseball.
It’s understandable if you failed to pay close attention to the eighth annual MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in Boston, but the game improved last week in a way that has general managers and intellectually curious fans drooling. Some insecure longtime scouts will be nervous, however, as will some veteran broadcasters.
I’m looking at you, Hawk Harrelson. You too, Harold Reynolds.
Thanks to a revolutionary system of real-time data-collection via interconnected tracking cameras, three major league ballparks will provide instant information about every single movement on the field. Citi Field in New York, Target Field in Minneapolis and Milwaukee’s Miller Park are already online, up and running for this season. More parks will be ready as this year progresses, and it will be fully implemented across MLB for the start of 2015.
Everything quantifiable, measured either comparably to that of others or as a percentage of an ideal. Seven terabytes per game, accessible by the production truck in time for the first replay and in time to measure the opinion of anyone analyzing what they saw, or – more significantly – what they thought they saw.
As MLB Network’s Brian Kenny tweeted, “Data-haters in sports are about to be left behind … forever.”

So no more, “He took a really good route to that ball.” That now becomes, “Here you see what would have been a perfect route to that ball, and Mike Trout does a remarkable job of keeping 94 percent route-efficiency.”

No more, “Yu Darvish is really getting great rotation on his curveball.” That’s now, “His curve is averaging 1700 RPM, which is 100 more than it did in his last start and 12 percent above league average.”
Really wrap your head around this for a second, because I still don’t think enough awareness has been created about how significant this is.
The speed and vector of each movement can now be known for every player and the ball, all at once. We will see virtual heat maps of defensive range that include not just which balls a fielder gets to but how quickly and from exactly how far away. Baserunners will have their speed, jumps and route-efficiency known, too, as we can see who gives away valuable time with sloppy angles rounding the bags and who doesn’t. Which outfielders’ throws are most often true to perfect trajectory? Which hitters generate the highest batted-ball velocity, and on what pitches and where in the zone? We’re about to know.

Harrelson’s musty brand of “I’ve been around this game a long time” superiority just got vaporized. Right away we can put many cornpone musings about lively bats and good instincts to the test. Maybe he’s right more than not, even. The point is that actual knowledge is supplanting the mysticism of self-appointed witch doctors.
We’ll soon find out if Reynolds was merely playing a part as a wrongheaded public denier of the value of advanced metrics. It’s possible he’s dropping that whole bit as he assumes the lead analyst role for FOX, or he may be risking a real combination of discomfort and embarrassment as the technology of the game passes him by. For him to be hired by the game’s primary broadcast network just as this is happening suggests either that he’s ready to enlighten himself or somebody at FOX made a terrible mistake.
The response from some is inevitable, predictable and trite. Dumb people are afraid of knowing new things or confronting the idea that long-held beliefs are going to be objectively weighed for veracity. It’s a specious argument that the game is rendered less fun when we know more about what is actually happening. Just like that durn Copernicus with all his highfalutin book-larnin’ ruining the non-stop party that was geocentrism.
Bob Bowman is the CEO of MLB Advanced Media, and he told MLB.com that the new data merely adds more richness to how we talk about baseball.
“This is going to be pretty exciting,” he said. “We think it’s going to change the way we argue about the game, but we don’t think it’s going to settle any debates. We think it starts more.”
While he’s dead on about the last part, he’s kidding himself if he doesn’t think that all this new sunlight won’t chase some old misunderstandings scurrying out of the shadows. Harrelson, for one, is fond of prefacing baseless, grandiose opinions in a way that presents them as immutable, eternal truth.
“That’s the way it is,” he likes to say, sounding like an unsettling combination of Walter Cronkite and Paula Deen. “That’s the way it always has been, and that’s the way it always will be.”
And that’s already wrong.
It's interesting that Bernstein and Kenny don't seem to realize that this makes them irrelevant too.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:00 am 
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The joy he takes in pointing out other people's flaws is quite telling


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:07 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
the Pacers are a better team than they are playing like right now. Bad acquisitions.

And I guess I'll be alone on this one, but Paul George is the real deal.

George is a good player on a good team. He was anointed by Bernstein to be a great player on a great team. That was where the problem lie for me. How could the Bulls possibly be considered title contenders when they have the insurmountable Paul George and Indiana Pacers as well as the mighty Miami Heat to contend with. Rose's injury changes that significantly but Bernstein was making these types of proclamations without factoring in the injury status of Rose.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:12 am 
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KDdidit wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I wonder how his Paul George love is faring also. One of his arguments has also been that the Bulls even if they supplant the Heat will have the mighty Pacers to contend with because they have Paul George as the mighty Derrick Rose stopper. I know Rose's future is in doubt as that "guy" but Paul George has been vastly overrated and so has that team for that matter. They won 49 games last year yet people such as Bernstein had anointed them as world champions because they took the Heat to seven games. We will never know but I believe that a fully healthy Bulls team would have beaten the Heat. It is ironic how the Bulls team that won 62 games was not good enough to beat Miami but a Pacers team that won 49 games was considered the next great thing in the NBA.

Danny overrates Hibbard just as much. Another guy he'd rather have than Noah.


hibbard averages 17 and 10 in the 2013 playoffs but reverts back to his career averages this season? Not a pacers observer, but what the heck?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:14 am 
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dan bernstein wrote:
Dumb people are afraid of knowing new things or confronting the idea that long-held beliefs are going to be objectively weighed for veracity.


That's not an oversimplified generalization or anything.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:14 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Bernstein: New MLB Cameras Will Expose Ignorant Announcers
March 9, 2014 6:06 PM

(CBS) You may have missed the news last week that’s going to change forever how we look at baseball.
It’s understandable if you failed to pay close attention to the eighth annual MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in Boston, but the game improved last week in a way that has general managers and intellectually curious fans drooling. Some insecure longtime scouts will be nervous, however, as will some veteran broadcasters.
I’m looking at you, Hawk Harrelson. You too, Harold Reynolds.
Thanks to a revolutionary system of real-time data-collection via interconnected tracking cameras, three major league ballparks will provide instant information about every single movement on the field. Citi Field in New York, Target Field in Minneapolis and Milwaukee’s Miller Park are already online, up and running for this season. More parks will be ready as this year progresses, and it will be fully implemented across MLB for the start of 2015.
Everything quantifiable, measured either comparably to that of others or as a percentage of an ideal. Seven terabytes per game, accessible by the production truck in time for the first replay and in time to measure the opinion of anyone analyzing what they saw, or – more significantly – what they thought they saw.
As MLB Network’s Brian Kenny tweeted, “Data-haters in sports are about to be left behind … forever.”

So no more, “He took a really good route to that ball.” That now becomes, “Here you see what would have been a perfect route to that ball, and Mike Trout does a remarkable job of keeping 94 percent route-efficiency.”

No more, “Yu Darvish is really getting great rotation on his curveball.” That’s now, “His curve is averaging 1700 RPM, which is 100 more than it did in his last start and 12 percent above league average.”
Really wrap your head around this for a second, because I still don’t think enough awareness has been created about how significant this is.
The speed and vector of each movement can now be known for every player and the ball, all at once. We will see virtual heat maps of defensive range that include not just which balls a fielder gets to but how quickly and from exactly how far away. Baserunners will have their speed, jumps and route-efficiency known, too, as we can see who gives away valuable time with sloppy angles rounding the bags and who doesn’t. Which outfielders’ throws are most often true to perfect trajectory? Which hitters generate the highest batted-ball velocity, and on what pitches and where in the zone? We’re about to know.

Harrelson’s musty brand of “I’ve been around this game a long time” superiority just got vaporized. Right away we can put many cornpone musings about lively bats and good instincts to the test. Maybe he’s right more than not, even. The point is that actual knowledge is supplanting the mysticism of self-appointed witch doctors.
We’ll soon find out if Reynolds was merely playing a part as a wrongheaded public denier of the value of advanced metrics. It’s possible he’s dropping that whole bit as he assumes the lead analyst role for FOX, or he may be risking a real combination of discomfort and embarrassment as the technology of the game passes him by. For him to be hired by the game’s primary broadcast network just as this is happening suggests either that he’s ready to enlighten himself or somebody at FOX made a terrible mistake.
The response from some is inevitable, predictable and trite. Dumb people are afraid of knowing new things or confronting the idea that long-held beliefs are going to be objectively weighed for veracity. It’s a specious argument that the game is rendered less fun when we know more about what is actually happening. Just like that durn Copernicus with all his highfalutin book-larnin’ ruining the non-stop party that was geocentrism.
Bob Bowman is the CEO of MLB Advanced Media, and he told MLB.com that the new data merely adds more richness to how we talk about baseball.
“This is going to be pretty exciting,” he said. “We think it’s going to change the way we argue about the game, but we don’t think it’s going to settle any debates. We think it starts more.”
While he’s dead on about the last part, he’s kidding himself if he doesn’t think that all this new sunlight won’t chase some old misunderstandings scurrying out of the shadows. Harrelson, for one, is fond of prefacing baseless, grandiose opinions in a way that presents them as immutable, eternal truth.
“That’s the way it is,” he likes to say, sounding like an unsettling combination of Walter Cronkite and Paula Deen. “That’s the way it always has been, and that’s the way it always will be.”
And that’s already wrong.
It's interesting that Bernstein and Kenny don't seem to realize that this makes them irrelevant too.


How? Kenny shows replays. And if anything, this will enhance the Bernstein shtick by giving him even more evidence against the meatballs than he has now.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:21 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
How? Kenny shows replays. And if anything, this will enhance the Bernstein shtick by giving him even more evidence against the meatballs than he has now.
Kenny does more than show replays. He's involved in discussing the game too. That is why he is involved in this.

If the answer to questions are answered by irrefutable computer evidence, then all discussion about it is irrelevant. We have the answer. It would be like arguing what 12 x 12 is.

The factory workers thought that computers were making things easier for them too. We don't really need sports radio to read off numbers.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:26 am 
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If you think this system is going to completely shut down discussion, I think you're wrong. People don't understand and disregard WAR entirely. This will probably be treated similarly. I imagine Bernstein's discussions will be exactly those he has had for years on the merits of WAR.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:28 am 
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Thankfully we will have indisputable proof what a shitty player DeAza is. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:31 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
If you think this system is going to completely shut down discussion, I think you're wrong. People don't understand and disregard WAR entirely. This will probably be treated similarly. I imagine Bernstein's discussions will be exactly those he has had for years on the merits of WAR.
No, WAR is a made up statistic. It may have merit, but it's contrived based on circumstantial adjustments done by REALLY. SMART. PEOPLE.

This is literally a measurement that answers the question with irrefutable evidence. It would be like arguing against the results of a track meet.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:33 am 
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You're right, probably not a great example.


That said, if you are predicting this system eliminates sports radio, I'd be interested in a board wager.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:35 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
That said, if you are predicting this system eliminates sports radio, I'd be interested in a board wager.
If it's as good as Bernstein describes, it eliminates the need for pretty much any baseball analysis of players. Other, better sports still exist though which can't be solved by a computer.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:37 am 
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Can't imagine living in a brain that thinks football is a better sport than baseball. Must not be a lot going on in there most of the time. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:38 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
That said, if you are predicting this system eliminates sports radio, I'd be interested in a board wager.
If it's as good as Bernstein describes, it eliminates the need for pretty much any baseball analysis of players. Other, better sports still exist though which can't be solved by a computer.


The Bulls beat the Heat. That's definitive. That doesn't mean there is nothing to discuss about what it means.


Make the prediction then. Are you saying this system is going to be very flawed? Or that sports radio is going to die?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:40 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
The Bulls beat the Heat. That's definitive. That doesn't mean there is nothing to discuss about what it means.
Yes, results can still be discussed. However, anyone can discuss past results. Bernstein does not provide value by knowing that the Heat lost.
Bucky Chris wrote:
Make the prediction then. Are you saying this system is going to be very flawed? Or that sports radio is going to die?
No and no.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:46 am 
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So how is this system going to "make them irrelevant?"

I would argue this is going to give Bernstein a helluva lot of show content.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:51 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
So how is this system going to "make them irrelevant?"
How is it going to make Hawk irrelevant?

If it works as Bernstein describes, there is no grey area. There is a right and wrong answer. I don't need Hawk to tell me what he thinks. I don't need Bernstein to tell me what he thinks. It's just a fact.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:52 am 
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Bernstein wrote:
So no more, “He took a really good route to that ball.” That now becomes, “Here you see what would have been a perfect route to that ball, and Mike Trout does a remarkable job of keeping 94 percent route-efficiency.”

No more, “Yu Darvish is really getting great rotation on his curveball.” That’s now, “His curve is averaging 1700 RPM, which is 100 more than it did in his last start and 12 percent above league average.”

If announcers begin talking like that I’m going to have to PTFB. He doesn’t understand the announcer/fan dynamic. Most fans don’t want to listen to a computer.

Bernstein wrote:
Bob Bowman is the CEO of MLB Advanced Media, and he told MLB.com that the new data merely adds more richness to how we talk about baseball.
“This is going to be pretty exciting,” he said. “We think it’s going to change the way we argue about the game, but we don’t think it’s going to settle any debates. We think it starts more.”
While he’s dead on about the last part, he’s kidding himself if he doesn’t think that all this new sunlight won’t chase some old misunderstandings scurrying out of the shadows. Harrelson, for one, is fond of prefacing baseless, grandiose opinions in a way that presents them as immutable, eternal truth.

Actually he isn’t dead on. Calls will likely be even worse than they already are:

Carl in Alsip: Uh, yea, I feel like Chris Sale has the nastiest slider in the MLB. We as Sox fans are pretty...
Bernstein: Wait, what did you just say? Best slider? No, MLBAM says he only gets 8% more rotation than average. Verlander gets 11%.
Carl: I mean I’ve watched every Sox game this year in person or on TV. He makes hitters look…
Bernstein: Carl! Your eyes are better than cameras? Than the engineers and mathematicians? Ha. After you hang up on yourself please kill yourself as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:56 am 
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All this verbiage obfuscates the fundamental truth that Hawk is a senile jackass that needs to be put out to pasture. Give him a carrot.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:00 am 
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I think it's unfortunate that we have to discuss the White Sox. Yes, they won a World Series 9 years ago and then they made the playoffs after the blackout game, but the team is not going anywhere. Baseball is boring enough. It's bad enough it's all that is talked about during the summer until the Bears start.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:01 am 
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Mini Ditka wrote:
Baseball is boring enough. It's bad enough it's all that is talked about during the summer until the Bears start.


Ah, another simpleton. "Great" minds think alike. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:03 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
Mini Ditka wrote:
Baseball is boring enough. It's bad enough it's all that is talked about during the summer until the Bears start.


Ah, another simpleton. "Great" minds think alike. :lol:


Why is it championship or bust in the NBA and then they spend 7 months talking about two last place baseball teams?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:04 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
So how is this system going to "make them irrelevant?"

I would argue this is going to give Bernstein a helluva lot of show content.

Oh sure this will give him plenty of content to misinterpret the findings like he did with defensive shifts. He just assumed that because the Cubs were employing defensive shifts they were preventing runs. That was until the data showed they actually allowed more runs than they prevented.

Guys like Lil Danny can have all the stats in the world but it doesn't make a damn bit of difference because he doesn't understand the game of baseball.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:06 am 
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I knew Beerstain would be frothing at the mouth with orgasmic giddiness about the MIT Sloan Statistics Conference. Coincidentally, it was a top story on Deadspin during the weekend.

The first two sentences of Dan's column are filled with such condescension. They essentially translate to the following:

You stupid ignorant hick pigfucker! Get out of your goober world and start playing attention to this important stuff! This is Big Boy Baseball.

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