You stop. Science has the best answer til it doesn't.

People that have cancer have cancer. They can be treated for it in a number of ways. People that don't get vaccinated won't necessarily get what they are not vaccinated for. I have not said anything about vaccinations and autism. I don't know why you keep bringing that up as a point.

maybe a local chiropractor could help out

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Yeah, it wasn't available when I was a kid. Last year I asked my doctor if I should get it and he suggested that at my age it wasn't wise. I got the virus not long after that.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

it's amazing how influential Jenny McCarthy is, fr

Yes. How do you not understand the basic concept of science? You don't throw out current supportable data because we may eventually find a more correct answer. We'd all die before 40 if we made all medical decisions based on that level of required knowledge.
This is where you are wrong. We know the amount of people that will get these diseases without vaccination. It still happens all the time in other countries though those numbers are decreasing. Yes, an individual may be lucky to avoid getting the disease. I may be lucky to not ever wear sunscreen and not get skin cancer. It still doesn't mean it is something I should avoid.
You have said you don't know if there is a link or not. It seems clear you think there may very well be a link even though there is no reason to believe so.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't know if there is a link or not.

I do know that they cause paralysis, seizures, and rashes. That's what I'm going on. I'd prefer if my kids were not paralyzed, having seizures, and rashes if I know I can avoid it.

I'm guessing you'd also prefer that your children do not contract the viruses for measles, mumps, rubella, polio, etc., and their chances of doing so would be very, very high if everyone adopted such an attitude toward vaccination.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

A local chiro helped our daughter avoid a kidney transplant.

Btw, she had THE top nephrologist in the nation for nephrotic syndrome. He incorporated some of our treatment recommendations in the ensuing years.

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This is all just a question of math and probability right?

Do you have a child that has dealt with every medical issue known to man? Because it seems like every issue that is talked about here you have a personal story to interject.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Do you at least know there is no supportable evidence of a link?

Do you know if there is a link between cotton clothing and autism?
So, are you going to/did you vaccinate your kids?

Do you plan to forgo any medical treatment with a higher risk than vaccines?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yes. That's why mine were vaccinated. But I don't believe what is right for me is right for everybody and would not want a parent making a choice they are uncomfortable with.

I wonder how many people think being deliberately obtuse is the same as being thoughtful.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I feel like I must point out that for every kid who doesn't get vaccinated, the odds of your child getting sick is increased. This isn't like a parent choosing to not have a television. It's a decision that endangers everyone else.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't believe this last statement. If a parent chose to drive drunk with their kids in the car, you wouldn't think they are wrong?

Like I said earlier, not vaccinating for these childhood diseases is irresponsible and frankly, a breach of the social contract. And that's why they're coming back, as evidenced by the measles outbreak in New York and cases of Tuberculosis that have been appearing. I grew up down the street from a TB sanitarium. The vaccine put it out of business.

Some of you are espousing a philosophy akin to saying you have a friend or family member who was carjacked while stopped at a redlight, so you're making the best decision for your family and never stopping at redlights for their safety.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I'm still not sure why it's so hard for Rick and others to understand why someone may choose to do something for their child that isn't conventional. Anecdotal evidence shouldn't be easily dismissed just because the science doesn't agree. Based on that logic it would have been wrong to believe that cigarettes cause cancer and that lead paint isn't good for your home not long ago. You don't have to agree with it but to dismiss it out right doesn't make sense.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Yes, but I don't think they've looked at it much either. If there was one, I don't think they'd stop giving vaccinations, I'm not so sure they'd tell us. They don't want an outbreak of disease.

I will forgo any medical treatment that does not suit me or my family. I think everybody should have that right.

Driving drunk, cotton clothing, and stopping at red lights really aren't comparable to vaccinations.



Mostly, and what risk you are wiling to take on.

Anecdotal evidence is gathered and considered by doctors every day. As well it should be.

They want evidence of family history for things like diabetes. But for some reason, the very same people want to dismiss family history when it comes to vaccinations.

Here is a list of reported deaths from drug interactions for the last ten years.


http://www.fda.gov/drugs/guidancecompli ... 070461.htm

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Your assertion is not supported by the evidence currently available on measles cases in New York.

And the two babies that they know were effected were too young to be vaccinated.

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Maybe it's just me, but she was way more influential about 15 years ago.

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Anecdotal evidence should only be used to encourage future research. Drawing conclusions on anecdotal evidence is incredibly dangerous to a society.
Well, sort of. As I pointed out earlier, the dangers of cigarettes were known with evidence well before the 60s. However, that kind of predates the modern medical/scientific research community. As for lead paint, it isn't good and the dangers were unknown, but not having lead paint wasn't killing hundreds of thousands of people a year.

Can you describe to me what life would be like if no one in the United States was vaccinated?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Has anybody made the assertion that nobody should be vaccinated?

Qbo may have.

Other than that, no.

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If we start ignoring clear and obvious medical best practices and instead rely on individual parent choice then it is a fair thing to consider.

If I may rephrase then, what if every parent in the United States decided that they did not want to vaccinate. Please describe what life would be like in the United States.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's not very likely to happen Brick. And life would be like it is now.

Some would go through life unaffected, while others would not. Without care being taken, the sick and infirmed would die at a greater rate probably.

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You seem to be pretty close to that thinking tho, right?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

So you think vaccines are pretty much pointless?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not even close.

I think parents should be allowed to make a decision on their own. Which I have stated more than once in this thread.

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Without that, I don't think there's any way threads like these get to 19+ pages.