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 Post subject: Where Was The Speed
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:38 am 
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This was the type of game where a single play could have changed the outcome. It was critical to get the guys who are most capable of impacting a game for a single play into the game. Yet, we saw no Hester on offense. We saw no Garret Wolfe. This was especially troubling because the deeper pass plays seemed to be working well.

Since Hester decided to take the day off on special teams, I would have loved to see him run a couple of straight fly patterns to see if he could get open.


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 Post subject: Re: Where Was The Speed
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:41 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
This was the type of game where a single play could have changed the outcome. It was critical to get the guys who are most capable of impacting a game for a single play into the game. Yet, we saw no Hester on offense. We saw no Garret Wolfe. This was especially troubling because the deeper pass plays seemed to be working well.

Since Hester decided to take the day off on special teams, I would have loved to see him run a couple of straight fly patterns to see if he could get open.


I don't know this for certain, but with the way the Chargers blitz, I wonder how often the Bears were in some sort of max protection or had an extra blocker stay in.

I agree with you though - the Bears weren't scoring, and not moving the ball much. Why not give Hester and/or Wolfe a series to see if they can get something going ? Not really a vaid excuse since the 'pound Benson up the middle for 1 yard' option wasn't really getting it done.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:41 am 
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Nas wrote:
It would have been nice to see Bradley out there.


Is he injured ? I'm assuming he's healthy enough to play so that's another good point.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:44 am 
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I wish the Bears could run an effective screen to curtail the chargers rush.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:47 am 
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I wish the Bears would have won.

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 Post subject: Re: Where Was The Speed
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:56 am 
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BD wrote:

I don't know this for certain, but with the way the Chargers blitz, I wonder how often the Bears were in some sort of max protection or had an extra blocker stay in.

I agree with you though - the Bears weren't scoring, and not moving the ball much. Why not give Hester and/or Wolfe a series to see if they can get something going ? Not really a vaid excuse since the 'pound Benson up the middle for 1 yard' option wasn't really getting it done.


Yeah, the Bears were definitely putting extra blockers in to counter the Chargers' pass rush, so that may have prevented Hester from seeing much time. But that doesn't explain Wolfe's absence. The Bears got him to be a change-of-pace back, something they badly needed yesterday. I'd like to know why he didn't play.

Something that really could've helped the Bears, particularly with Wolfe on the field, would've been to line up in a spread formation and then run the ball instead of passing. This strategy is part of what makes the Colts a good running team, as it obviously prevents defenses from loading the box. Why don't the Bears ever do this?

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 Post subject: Re: Where Was The Speed
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:02 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Something that really could've helped the Bears, particularly with Wolfe on the field, would've been to line up in a spread formation and then run the ball instead of passing. This strategy is part of what makes the Colts a good running team, as it obviously prevents defenses from loading the box. Why don't the Bears ever do this?


Simple. Ron Turner. Run the ball to set up the play-action passing game. If it's not working, we lose...and then we'll try the exact same strategy next week.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:05 am 
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Grossman holds on to the ball for way too long. From what I can tell, the routes are designed based on such extended ball holding period. Without exact data available to me and based solely on gut feel, I would contend that on average the better NFL QBs hold the ball for a fraction of time that Grossman does.

Whoever designed this needs to get his head checked. There is no way Grossman is going to hang on to the ball for that long vs the league's best D's.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:06 am 
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It still came down to the fact that if they bears don't turnover the football they win. Simple as that.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:09 am 
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I only recall seeing Hester on the offensive field for 1 play...during which they tried (emphasis on "tried") to run a screen to the other side.

The defender on Hester was jumping up and down and pointing to Hester as if trying to let the rest of the D know that he was there... :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:13 am 
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Coach Crapowski wrote:
Grossman holds on to the ball for way too long. From what I can tell, the routes are designed based on such extended ball holding period. Without exact data available to me and based solely on gut feel, I would contend that on average the better NFL QBs hold the ball for a fraction of time that Grossman does.

Whoever designed this needs to get his head checked. There is no way Grossman is going to hang on to the ball for that long vs the league's best D's.


I agree 100%. Grossman always waits for the long pass play to develop before he looks at anything else (or at least that what it looks like to me)...great idea against the 49ers. But against a team that blitzes like the Chargers, look to the 8-15 yard range...it would get abused by a good quarterback (hi Tom Brady)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:16 am 
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Coach Crapowski wrote:
Grossman holds on to the ball for way too long. From what I can tell, the routes are designed based on such extended ball holding period. Without exact data available to me and based solely on gut feel, I would contend that on average the better NFL QBs hold the ball for a fraction of time that Grossman does.

Whoever designed this needs to get his head checked. There is no way Grossman is going to hang on to the ball for that long vs the league's best D's.


It's not just that he "holds the ball too long" as an objective measure, which he does frequently. His problem is also that he seems incapable of "creating time" in the pocket for his receivers to get open. He's poor at recognizing the rush, moving up in the pocket, and side-stepping defenders, so when receivers don't come immediately open, he cannot perform effectively. Rex, in other words, has little or no ability to make his receivers better by giving them extra opportunities to spring free. To succeed, he must either face a poor pass-rushing team or have that pass rush slowed down by effective play-action, the bi-product of a good running game.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:18 am 
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Grossman needs to be better in his pre-snap reads and recognize where the pressure is going to come from. This will make him more effective because where the pressure is coming from is usually where the hot route will be.

It would have nice to use Wolfe on a screen or two to keep the Chargers honest. Running Wolfe inside is not the answer and the Bears need to figure out how to use him effectively. A nice double screen with Hester as a decoy and Wolfe getting the pass would be a nice play.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:26 am 
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Moving up in the pocket? Can someone e-mail him the concept?

I don't see the premier QB's run backwards about 15-20 yards after taking the snap. Standing that far behind the line opens a perfect angle for blitzing LB's and speedy DE's who are capable of shedding the O-tackle.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:29 am 
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And unblocked LB's named Phillips :o :shock: :x

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:36 am 
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This seemed to be something new Rex picked up last year maybe as an attempt to make it through the year uninjured. His first couple of years I thought his mobility was acceptable but he's turned into a statue. They may as well direct snap the ball to Benson, with that machine that shoots the ball 50 yards next to him, and if he doesn't see anything he can just flip it in the machine to fling it 50 yards down field for a big play...reception or interception. This will be just like Rex but better


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:39 am 
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They said they were going to use the shotgun more this year to keep him off his back foot but I recall only seeing it maybe 3 or 4 times. I think this would help out greatly. Also Greg Olsen not playing did make a difference

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:43 am 
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OK, maybe exaggerated the yardage, but he still gets way too far back there. Much farther than most decent QBs.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:49 am 
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Nas wrote:
He is moving around and trying to step up in the pocket to avoid the rush.


Not when he doesn't see or feel it, which is quite often. And even when he does step up, he looks clumsy. His ability to step up is also limited by his height. On at least one occasion yesterday he stepped up in the pocket only to narrowly avoid hurling the ball into an offensive lineman's shoulder pads because he's so tiny.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:51 am 
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Nas wrote:
tmurf423 wrote:
They said they were going to use the shotgun more this year to keep him off his back foot but I recall only seeing it maybe 3 or 4 times. I think this would help out greatly. Also Greg Olsen not playing did make a difference


I only recall seeing it once and he threw a strike to Berrian between 4 defenders. Give Rex a little time to throw and he is a great quarterback. If he doesn't have time to throw he is average at best.


And again, he is largely incapable of making time with his feet. He is short, slow and comparatively uncoordinated.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:54 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
He is moving around and trying to step up in the pocket to avoid the rush.


Not when he doesn't see or feel it, which is quite often. And even when he does step up, he looks clumsy. His ability to step up is also limited by his height. On at least one occasion yesterday he stepped up in the pocket only to narrowly avoid hurling the ball into an offensive lineman's shoulder pads because he's so tiny.


I don't think height has as much to do with success in the NFL anymore. You always need a lane to throw. How tall is Bulger? He does not throw very well on the move though, I agree there. Shotgun is the answer. The Bears need a change in offensive mentality just like the Big Ten. Football has adapted and they need to adapt with it. I was listening to the announcers during the Pats game and they said Belicheck realized he has to put up points and that is why he went out and revamped his WR core.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:00 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:

even when he does step up, he looks clumsy.
He did look uncomfortable doing it on a couple plays.

Tall Midget wrote:
His ability to step up is also limited by his height. On at least one occasion yesterday he stepped up in the pocket only to narrowly avoid hurling the ball into an offensive lineman's shoulder pads because he's so tiny.


All the more reason to call more shotgun plays. Especially in obvious passing downs. Giving him a couple seconds to see the field will normally result in a positive play. Having a 6'4" guy weighing 350 pounds in his face after a snap will normally result in a bad play.


I agree about the shotgun. I have been advocating its use with Grossman since last preseason.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:04 pm 
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tmurf423 wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Nas wrote:
He is moving around and trying to step up in the pocket to avoid the rush.


Not when he doesn't see or feel it, which is quite often. And even when he does step up, he looks clumsy. His ability to step up is also limited by his height. On at least one occasion yesterday he stepped up in the pocket only to narrowly avoid hurling the ball into an offensive lineman's shoulder pads because he's so tiny.


I don't think height has as much to do with success in the NFL anymore. You always need a lane to throw. How tall is Bulger? He does not throw very well on the move though, I agree there. Shotgun is the answer. The Bears need a change in offensive mentality just like the Big Ten. Football has adapted and they need to adapt with it. I was listening to the announcers during the Pats game and they said Belicheck realized he has to put up points and that is why he went out and revamped his WR core.


Umm, being short is a problem when you also lack instinct in the pocket and have little or no athleticism/mobility. Playing from the shotgun should help Grossman--even though he says he doesn't like it--but it's not going to make a great player out of him. He simply needs to continue improving at the basics of the game.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 12:23 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Coach Crapowski wrote:
Grossman holds on to the ball for way too long. From what I can tell, the routes are designed based on such extended ball holding period. Without exact data available to me and based solely on gut feel, I would contend that on average the better NFL QBs hold the ball for a fraction of time that Grossman does.

Whoever designed this needs to get his head checked. There is no way Grossman is going to hang on to the ball for that long vs the league's best D's.

It's not just that he "holds the ball too long" as an objective measure, which he does frequently. His problem is also that he seems incapable of "creating time" in the pocket for his receivers to get open. He's poor at recognizing the rush, moving up in the pocket, and side-stepping defenders, so when receivers don't come immediately open, he cannot perform effectively. Rex, in other words, has little or no ability to make his receivers better by giving them extra opportunities to spring free. To succeed, he must either face a poor pass-rushing team or have that pass rush slowed down by effective play-action, the bi-product of a good running game.

He stepped up once late in the game in order to avoid an oncoming rusher. That was nice to see.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:43 am 
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I would have never thought I would have to bring this up again three weeks into the season.

Could Garret Wolfe really be so bad that he should not get any snaps? Olson sure looked good on two catches. Why did he not get any others? If you never give the ball to Hester when he is in there he fails to even be a decoy.

The theme of this year's draft was speed and Turner has absolutely no idea how to use it correctly.


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