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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:28 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
100% agree

So is it fair to label two years as "season after season of brutal baseball" and in the same post praise a gm combo that just came off a terrible season of their own?


One wasn't done on purpose though. I know you can see the difference. It's great for bernstein to sit in the studio and say, "don't buy tickets", but somebody has to buy tickets or the team would fold.

Well that's terrific and commendable that they gave it the old college try.

They failed hard, regardless


Well, I didn't believe in the 2012 White Sox. I thought they did as much as they possibly could have. And I didn't expect them to do it again. But all their measureables were better than Detroit- pitching, hitting, fielding. Although I thought sticking with that group for last year was a mistake, I didn't feel like I was being wang-whipped.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:33 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
No, I wouldn't. If the Cubs has started the season with Bryant at third and Baez at second and both of them looked like they could play at the level, I would feel better for Cub fans. If the Cubs had signed a couple free agents to one or two year deals that weren't going to "block" any of their future superstars so the paying fan could watch something better than these busted down retreads, I'd feel better for Cub fans.
To get it back on track, I am wondering if this is ultimately the panic move the Cubs have to make this year.

It's hard to sell hope for the future when they aren't even in a Cubs uniform.

Baez is on schedule to come up this year anyway

I dont see any panic moves. People are acting like this is year 5 of Theo's tenure. If the kids start to come up this year that will be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:04 am 
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While I'm certainly not his biggest fan at all, I'm willing to give him a couple months or at least until the weather turns a bit ( you know those Dominican players hate the cold) before I get the knives out on Castro but yeah so far he certainly hasn't shown like this year is going to be different than year.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:23 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
SomeGuy wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Remeber those halcyon days when he was headed to the Hall of Fame? Don't worry though, Baez is a certain Hall of Famer and he'll be up soon.


You don't want them to be Hall of Famer's! The more 100 loss seasons the Cubs have the closer they are to a World Series.

Get it?


:lol: The biggest Cubs fan I know called me up after the Sox opener and was going nuts about Eaton and Abreu and complaining about the Cubs. This is a guy who has pretty much been on board with Theo's "plan". He rightly pointed out that Hahn and Williams retooled on the fly without subjecting their fans to season after season of brutal baseball. And then he told me that when he spoke with Theo at Kerry Wood's party, Theo said, "I wish there was free agency for 26 year old guys." And this guy said to me, "You know what? There are good 22-26 year old guys available. You just have to find them the way Hahn did."


could have responded "because those 26 year old free agents would be beating down the door to play for a 100 loss team"

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:28 am 
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:lol: I love this place

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:35 am 
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I said it a couple of years ago with Castro: it does affect young players, even young players with exceptional talent, to be presented with the expectation of their team losing.

I think a stronger veteran presence, even one guy, could make all the difference in the world for him. He is still young and impressionable. Find someone to make it a positive impression.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:37 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I said it a couple of years ago with Castro: it does affect young players, even young players with exceptional talent, to be presented with the expectation of their team losing.

I think a stronger veteran presence, even one guy, could make all the difference in the world for him. He is still young and impressionable. Find someone to make it a positive impression.

Konerko for Baez. Seems fair. Fits a need for both teams.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:37 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I said it a couple of years ago with Castro: it does affect young players, even young players with exceptional talent, to be presented with the expectation of their team losing.

I think a stronger veteran presence, even one guy, could make all the difference in the world for him. He is still young and impressionable. Find someone to make it a positive impression.

Agreed

Although I dont think its the losing. I think it might be a case where his natural talent took him very far and when it was time to work and improve he couldnt/cant cut it


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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:40 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I said it a couple of years ago with Castro: it does affect young players, even young players with exceptional talent, to be presented with the expectation of their team losing.

I think a stronger veteran presence, even one guy, could make all the difference in the world for him. He is still young and impressionable. Find someone to make it a positive impression.

Agreed

Although I dont think its the losing. I think it might be a case where his natural talent took him very far and when it was time to work and improve he couldnt/cant cut it

Even if he approaches where he was hitting wise again , you still have a below average defensive player who is mentally not in the game a portion of the time. He reeks of I don't give a shit .

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:44 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I said it a couple of years ago with Castro: it does affect young players, even young players with exceptional talent, to be presented with the expectation of their team losing.

I think a stronger veteran presence, even one guy, could make all the difference in the world for him. He is still young and impressionable. Find someone to make it a positive impression.

Konerko for Baez. Seems fair. Fits a need for both teams.


A veteran SS nearing the end of his career who has skins on the wall would be what I recommend, a guy who you immediately respect: Derek Jeter for Vogelbach.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:54 am 
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They need to move Cassie off SS. Take the pressure and negativity away and let him focus on hitting. He could be a good defensive player at 3B or left field. The reason he had such a bad AB was because he was trying to make up for the error. Take that negative element away and he could get back to the player he was when he first came up.


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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:57 am 
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So he's so mentally weak that he lets an error affect his plate appearances? No matter where you put him that will happen then unless he will be error free everywhere except SS.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:58 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Theo: 2 bad seasons
Hahn: 1 bad season
Given the roster and the money situations Hahn inherited, I would argue that this is really his first season. Much like Theo has really had only 1 full season given the roster he had to deal with in 2012.

The difference is that Hahn's big league team should be quite a bit better this year while Theo's is likely to be only marginally better at best.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:59 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
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Gordon Beckham looked like a sure fire HoFers after his initial couple weeks in the major. But you're right, Eaton and Abreu and Davidison situations are totally different.


He did? Maybe to a crazy ass fickle Cubs fan. I'm not suggesting that Eaton, Abreu, or Davidson are Hall of Fame caliber players. But I'll stack them up against Almora, Rizzo, and Bryant for their careers and feel real comfortable going forward. And nobody is constantly referring to the guy who found them as a "genius".

Are you serious?! Beckham's first year had Sox people and even idiots like Terry going ga ga over the kid. No no no don't crap me now.


Terry? Do you really take anything he says seriously?

There were also posters here proclaiming the same thing about Beckham.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:03 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Theo: 2 bad seasons
Hahn: 1 bad season
Given the roster and the money situations Hahn inherited, I would argue that this is really his first season. Much like Theo has really had only 1 full season given the roster he had to deal with in 2012.

The difference is that Hahn's big league team should be quite a bit better this year while Theo's is likely to be only marginally better at best.

So after 2 games you are ready to say this years Sox team will be quite a bit better than last year? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:04 am 
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Yeah, I am. They lose 99 games last year. If they lose 89 this year, I'd say that is a fairly decent improvement. I actually think they will be closer to 85 losses, which would be a pretty solid improvement IMO.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:09 am 
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No way to know that after 2 games. With the starting pitching after Sale this team could lose 99 again.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:09 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
So he's so mentally weak that he lets an error affect his plate appearances? No matter where you put him that will happen then unless he will be error free everywhere except SS.

Mentally weak is a little strong. Cassie has a shit-ton of pressure on him. And yes, he would make fewer errors at a less demanding position. I went to...ah forget it.


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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:15 am 
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RFDC wrote:
No way to know that after 2 games. With the starting pitching after Sale this team could lose 99 again.

:lol: Rongey said Quintana is a legit number 2 last week. Based on what I don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:17 am 
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RFDC wrote:
No way to know that after 2 games. With the starting pitching after Sale this team could lose 99 again.

I doubt it. When was the last time this team had really bad pitching for an entire season?

Obviously the team could lose 120 games. But it's a logical prediction to say they could win 75-80 games. That's not really out of the question at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:22 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
RFDC wrote:
No way to know that after 2 games. With the starting pitching after Sale this team could lose 99 again.

I doubt it. When was the last time this team had really bad pitching for an entire season?

Obviously the team could lose 120 games. But it's a logical prediction to say they could win 75-80 games. That's not really out of the question at all.

Sure they would win 75-80, but they have a pitching staff that is worse than last year when they lost 99 games. Not too hard to see a situation where they lost 95+ again.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:24 am 
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Their lineup will almost certainly be better. I think the rotation will be fine. The bullpen is obviously a concern but since I've been following the Sox pitching is not something I generally worry about.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:24 am 
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badrogue17 wrote:
RFDC wrote:
No way to know that after 2 games. With the starting pitching after Sale this team could lose 99 again.

:lol: Rongey said Quintana is a legit number 2 last week. Based on what I don't know.
Probably based on his numbers. He is 15-13 with a 3.61 ERA with a 1.2WHIP over 58 starts with the Sox.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:27 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
RFDC wrote:
No way to know that after 2 games. With the starting pitching after Sale this team could lose 99 again.

:lol: Rongey said Quintana is a legit number 2 last week. Based on what I don't know.
Probably based on his numbers. He is 15-13 with a 3.61 ERA with a 1.2WHIP over 58 starts with the Sox.

:lol: come on Frank, not even you really thinks Quintana is a legit #2 in this league.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:32 am 
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I think he has a chance to be in a couple of years. I think the ceiling for him is higher than anyone else on the Sox staff who is not named Chris Sale right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:38 am 
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2 games in... Cubs lose a 1-0 game and a 16 inning game and the season is over. Dump Castro.


Sox start 2-0 including needing a late rally to win against the Twins. "This season should be a big improvement!"


Which fanbase is which here? I thought the Cubs fans were the pie in the sky optimists :? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:39 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
2 games in... Cubs lose a 1-0 game and a 16 inning game and the season is over. Dump Castro.


Sox start 2-0 including needing a late rally to win against the Twins. "This season should be a big improvement!"


Which fanbase is which here? I thought the Cubs fans were the pie in the sky optimists :? :?
The Sox will have at least a 10 game improvement from last year. Do you disagree?

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:41 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
2 games in... Cubs lose a 1-0 game and a 16 inning game and the season is over. Dump Castro.


Sox start 2-0 including needing a late rally to win against the Twins. "This season should be a big improvement!"


Which fanbase is which here? I thought the Cubs fans were the pie in the sky optimists :? :?

I think it's pretty clear your post shows which team has TWTW.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:43 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
2 games in... Cubs lose a 1-0 game and a 16 inning game and the season is over. Dump Castro.


Sox start 2-0 including needing a late rally to win against the Twins. "This season should be a big improvement!"


Which fanbase is which here? I thought the Cubs fans were the pie in the sky optimists :? :?
The Sox will have at least a 10 game improvement from last year. Do you disagree?


I have no idea based on 2 games. If Sale gets hurt they could be worse than last year.

I will say that with as bad as the two teams were last season you only have to lose 90 games to be 10 games better. I dont know if that's truly 'improving', that is just sucking a little less.

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 Post subject: Re: Castro - It's Over
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:45 am 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I have no idea based on 2 games. If Sale gets hurt they could be worse than last year.
If you have no idea, why get mad at others who do think they have a good idea?

Hank Scorpio wrote:
I will say that with as bad as the two teams were last season you only have to lose 90 games to be 10 games better. I dont know if that's truly 'improving', that is just sucking a little less.
Well yeah, that is kind of the point. The Sox were horrible last year. Thinking they won't be horrible this year is all that is going on.

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