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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:11 am 
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The guy can hit, especially against lefties. But yea, the injury bug seems to be derailing his career lately.

http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-insider/ ... h-vitters/

The Case for Former and Present Chicago Cubs Prospect Josh Vitters
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By AJ Walsh, today at 7:25 am
The Case for Former and Present Chicago Cubs Prospect Josh Vitters

A while back on this site I blogged about how Matt Szczur was the story of the Cubs' minor league system -- not because he's a better prospect than Javy Baez, but because he could very well be a major league contributor when it's all said and done, despite his being well outside every top 15 Cubs prospect list I read this past offseason.

The point is, the Cubs have both impact talent and depth in the minors. Guys that rank in the 30s within their own system could be Top 10ers elsewhere, and have substantial big league potential.

Take Josh Vitters, for example. On Twitter, @Aisle424 -- an absolute must-follow, and a member of that wave of curmudgeonly Cubs bloggers that also includes @TheUncouthSloth and @desipiodotcom -- has pretty much given up on the former first-round pick. And I don't blame him: Vitters was absolutely overwhelmed in his first 109 major league plate appearances, striking out 33 times and nabbing just 12 hits...

...but, come on now. We don't honestly care about 109 plate appearances, do we? Instead, look at the facts.

1. Drafted out of high school, Vitters has always been able to put up decent, if not quite good, batting numbers despite his very young age. As a 20 year old, Josh hit .291/.350/.445 at High-A ball. Today there are only two hitters in their 20 year old seasons on the Daytona roster: Jeimer Candelario, and Albert Almora.

The next year, Josh hit .283/.322/.448 at AA as a 21 year old. Between AA and AAA, the Cubs currently have one hitting prospect under the age of 22, and that is Javier Baez.

2. Vitters hasn't had much chance to prove himself at MLB due mainly to injury, but he has performed when healthy at AAA. Over three years -- as a 22, 23, and 24 year old -- Vitters has hit .304/.361/.518 at the Triple A level.

For context, consider that, last year, Arizona mega-prospect Chris Owings put up 263 total bases over 575 plate appearances, leading the PCL by that measure. Vitters has 269 total bases in 568 plate appearances at AAA.

3. Vitters' main challenge is in his glove. There's no longer any room in the Iowa infield, so Josh is playing out in left now -- and to convince a team you deserve a spot in left field, you've really got to be able to mash. (Or play super duper defense, Junior Lake.)

Fortunately for Josh, he can mash -- particularly against left-handed pitching. While his overall OPS at AAA may look a bit timid (.879), his numbers against lefties have been jaw-dropping for years now.

In 2012, Vitters' age 22 season, Josh put up a 1.002 OPS against LHP in AAA. He hit .331/.377/.625 over 146 PAs, knocking 17 doubles, a triple, and 7 home runs -- 25 extra base hits in 146 trips to the plate.

Injuries limited Josh's 2013 campaign, but in the 31 PAs he did get against lefties, Vitters hit .387, with three doubles and two homers.

Am I saying Josh Vitters is a sure bet? No. Am I saying I regret not buying his shirsey? No. Am I saying he ought to be considered a top 25 prospect on this team? No.

But I still see something in the bat. The defensive issues are a real problem; he's gonna have to really, really hit to stay up in the majors if he gets another chance. But I do believe he's going to get another chance, and I do believe he has the potential to really, really hit, for both average and a touch of power.

It's easy to say "this year is a really big year for Prospect X," but it really truly is the case for Josh. He needs to show that he can hit lefties AND righties -- and I mean really hit them -- for several months in a row. Perhaps the athleticism that allowed him to play passable defense at third base will make him a plus guy out in left, although he doesn't really have wheels. We'll see, I suppose. (So far so good: 6-for-16 with 2 doubles and a homer through 4 games.)

And one more thing: do any of you like Ryan Kalish? Would you say you were glad to see the Cubs pick up a guy who was an early-round draft pick, had hit all throughout the minors, but had his career sidetracked by injuries?

No, Vitters doesn't have Kalish's speed, but he is still two years younger. And while neither player may turn into a superstar, in today's game you need 25 players that are each really good at at least a few things in order to win a bunch of games. Where Kalish could hit right-handed pitching and play all over the outfield, Vitters could provide a useful right-handed bat to sub in at the infield and outfield corners, perhaps as soon as June 1.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:33 am 
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cpguy wrote:
The point is, the Cubs have both impact talent and depth in the minors. Guys that rank in the 30s within their own system could be Top 10ers elsewhere, and have substantial big league potential..


Personally, my favorite line of a column filled with laugh-at-the-fanboy lines.

If I wish really, really hard, maybe I can wish the 25 year old in his fourth year at AAA and who cannot hit right handed pitching into a big league player.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:41 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
cpguy wrote:
The point is, the Cubs have both impact talent and depth in the minors. Guys that rank in the 30s within their own system could be Top 10ers elsewhere, and have substantial big league potential..


Personally, my favorite line of a column filled with laugh-at-the-fanboy lines.

If I wish really, really hard, maybe I can wish the 25 year old in his fourth year at AAA and who cannot hit right handed pitching into a big league player.


HOOTERVILLE!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:47 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
cpguy wrote:
The point is, the Cubs have both impact talent and depth in the minors. Guys that rank in the 30s within their own system could be Top 10ers elsewhere, and have substantial big league potential..


Personally, my favorite line of a column filled with laugh-at-the-fanboy lines.

If I wish really, really hard, maybe I can wish the 25 year old in his fourth year at AAA and who cannot hit right handed pitching into a big league player.


What is it with this guy? So he's a #3 pick who maybe can be a utility guy that might be able to hit left handed pitching? That's huge. I'd keep him at least another 3 years to see if he pans out.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:49 am 
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I only wish the Cubs found this Tommy Hanson guy, must be a hidden gem.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:50 am 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
cpguy wrote:
The point is, the Cubs have both impact talent and depth in the minors. Guys that rank in the 30s within their own system could be Top 10ers elsewhere, and have substantial big league potential..


Personally, my favorite line of a column filled with laugh-at-the-fanboy lines.

If I wish really, really hard, maybe I can wish the 25 year old in his fourth year at AAA and who cannot hit right handed pitching into a big league player.


What is it with this guy? So he's a #3 pick who maybe can be a utility guy that might be able to hit left handed pitching? That's huge. I'd keep him at least another 3 years to see if he pans out.

I think he like Jackson is out of options after this year so they either make the team or they are out.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:52 am 
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bigfan wrote:
I only wish the Cubs found this Tommy Hanson guy, must be a hidden gem.


Yep, the Sox are going to flip him for more great prospects that will help them win the World Series in 2019.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:54 am 
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Peoria Matt wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
cpguy wrote:
The point is, the Cubs have both impact talent and depth in the minors. Guys that rank in the 30s within their own system could be Top 10ers elsewhere, and have substantial big league potential..


Personally, my favorite line of a column filled with laugh-at-the-fanboy lines.

If I wish really, really hard, maybe I can wish the 25 year old in his fourth year at AAA and who cannot hit right handed pitching into a big league player.


What is it with this guy? So he's a #3 pick who maybe can be a utility guy that might be able to hit left handed pitching? That's huge. I'd keep him at least another 3 years to see if he pans out.

A blogger thinks he has a chance so that's all the evidence I need because lord knows there is no higher authority than a blogger.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:54 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
bigfan wrote:
I only wish the Cubs found this Tommy Hanson guy, must be a hidden gem.


Yep, the Sox are going to flip him for more great prospects that will help them win the World Series in 2019.

Tommy Hanson used to be pretty damn good. His brother dies and now he is awful or something?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:56 am 
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Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
bigfan wrote:
I only wish the Cubs found this Tommy Hanson guy, must be a hidden gem.


Yep, the Sox are going to flip him for more great prospects that will help them win the World Series in 2019.

Tommy Hanson used to be pretty damn good. His brother dies and now he is awful or something?


Is that what happened to him? I don't think he was injured. He was just shitty last season.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:06 am 
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I try to bring people together. This blogger and I could be BFFs if the Cubs traded him to the Sox and he platooned with Gillaspie.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:11 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Urlacher's missing neck wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
bigfan wrote:
I only wish the Cubs found this Tommy Hanson guy, must be a hidden gem.


Yep, the Sox are going to flip him for more great prospects that will help them win the World Series in 2019.

Tommy Hanson used to be pretty damn good. His brother dies and now he is awful or something?


Is that what happened to him? I don't think he was injured. He was just shitty last season.


Yup and Kenny instructed rick Hahn to wait until spring training was over to sign him, going to sneak him in. Because his gent wasnt calling anyone looking for a job for a 27 year old.

Plus, why would the Sox need him. All is good with the pitching.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:13 am 
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bigfan wrote:
I only wish the Cubs found this Tommy Hanson guy, must be a hidden gem.
Obsessed.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:14 am 
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Hanson was cut at the end of spring training. He was with Texas who could have used him with their health.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:16 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
bigfan wrote:
I only wish the Cubs found this Tommy Hanson guy, must be a hidden gem.
Obsessed.


Yes, I am obsessed the Cubs acquire as much hidden talent as possible.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:21 am 
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Whatever helps you sleep at night?

You are going to all four games this weekend and sitting in Jerry's box I presume?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:22 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Whatever helps you sleep at night?

You are going to all four games this weekend and sitting in Jerry's box I presume?


yes

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:27 am 
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Liar.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:04 pm 
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Vitters recovered and hit a bomb tonight. Baez actually got 2 hits too!!! He might be batting .100 now.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:53 pm 
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Ben Badler: Baez, on an 0-2 pitch from Jimmy Nelson (MLB top 100), just hit an opposite field HR into the wind over an 18-foot wall in RF.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:23 pm 
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Nice alliteration

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:51 am 
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Really shouldn't be too long for Bryant to get his promotion. No reason to believe he cannot play half the season in Iowa.

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... pid=592178

Few too many K's for 29 AB, but 7 walks and a 1.053 OPS sure look nice.

EDIT: Vitters has looked good to start 2014. Try to package him with something to bring some possible pitching prospects into the mix. 3B and corner OF spots are covered.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:43 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Really shouldn't be too long for Bryant to get his promotion. No reason to believe he cannot play half the season in Iowa.

http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... pid=592178

Few too many K's for 29 AB, but 7 walks and a 1.053 OPS sure look nice.

EDIT: Vitters has looked good to start 2014. Try to package him with something to bring some possible pitching prospects into the mix. 3B and corner OF spots are covered.



Bryant needs to work on his defense.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:44 am 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Really shouldn't be too long for Bryant to get his promotion. No reason to believe he cannot play half the season in Iowa.
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... pid=592178
Few too many K's for 29 AB, but 7 walks and a 1.053 OPS sure look nice.
EDIT: Vitters has looked good to start 2014. Try to package him with something to bring some possible pitching prospects into the mix. 3B and corner OF spots are covered.

Every current Cubs prospect needs to work on his defense.

The Cubs going forward aren't looking like they'll be a stellar defensive team.

At some point, the organization is going to need the hitting to more than make up for defensive miscues.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 12:09 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Really shouldn't be too long for Bryant to get his promotion. No reason to believe he cannot play half the season in Iowa.
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... pid=592178
Few too many K's for 29 AB, but 7 walks and a 1.053 OPS sure look nice.
EDIT: Vitters has looked good to start 2014. Try to package him with something to bring some possible pitching prospects into the mix. 3B and corner OF spots are covered.

Every current Cubs prospect needs to work on his defense.

The Cubs going forward aren't looking like they'll be a stellar defensive team.

At some point, the organization is going to need the hitting to more than make up for defensive miscues.


I disagree. I think they will be pretty good defensively should their prospects pan out.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:01 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Really shouldn't be too long for Bryant to get his promotion. No reason to believe he cannot play half the season in Iowa.
http://www.milb.com/milb/stats/stats.js ... pid=592178
Few too many K's for 29 AB, but 7 walks and a 1.053 OPS sure look nice.
EDIT: Vitters has looked good to start 2014. Try to package him with something to bring some possible pitching prospects into the mix. 3B and corner OF spots are covered.

Every current Cubs prospect needs to work on his defense.

The Cubs going forward aren't looking like they'll be a stellar defensive team.

At some point, the organization is going to need the hitting to more than make up for defensive miscues.


I disagree. I think they will be pretty good defensively should their prospects pan out.

You'll have two former infielders in the outfield (for awhile at least), and you'll have an infield of Olt / Baez / Castro / Alcantara / Rizzo. At least two of those players will be playing positions that are relatively new to them...and Castro is Castro. He'll make the tough play easy and the easy play tough.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:34 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
You'll have two former infielders in the outfield (for awhile at least), and you'll have an infield of Olt / Baez / Castro / Alcantara / Rizzo. At least two of those players will be playing positions that are relatively new to them...and Castro is Castro. He'll make the tough play easy and the easy play tough.


Rizzo was a gold glove runner-up. Everyone else used to be a SS except Olt. That means they are all athletic enough and have good enough arms to field any position. Plus, Olt is good defensively.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:38 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
You'll have two former infielders in the outfield (for awhile at least), and you'll have an infield of Olt / Baez / Castro / Alcantara / Rizzo. At least two of those players will be playing positions that are relatively new to them...and Castro is Castro. He'll make the tough play easy and the easy play tough.


Rizzo was a gold glove runner-up. Everyone else used to be a SS except Olt. That means they are all athletic enough and have good enough arms to field any position. Plus, Olt is good defensively.

Rizzo is solid.

Baez, Castro, and Alcantara are very raw. There is no guarantee any of them will become fully reliable at 3B or 2B.

Athletic isn't a synonym for skilled.

Turning the double play, making the cut-off, covering first on a bunt - these things are different from the right side of the infield. Being serviceable at SS does not suddenly make one great at 2B.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:41 pm 
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In the vein of what IMU said I think 3B is harder than it looks to simply go over there and try because you are athletic. I used to play all over the field as a younger man. The hot corner scared the shit out of me. You have to have balls and nerves to handle that spot. That shit comes screaming at you.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 1:45 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
You'll have two former infielders in the outfield (for awhile at least), and you'll have an infield of Olt / Baez / Castro / Alcantara / Rizzo. At least two of those players will be playing positions that are relatively new to them...and Castro is Castro. He'll make the tough play easy and the easy play tough.


Rizzo was a gold glove runner-up. Everyone else used to be a SS except Olt. That means they are all athletic enough and have good enough arms to field any position. Plus, Olt is good defensively.

Rizzo is solid.

Baez, Castro, and Alcantara are very raw. There is no guarantee any of them will become fully reliable at 3B or 2B.

Athletic isn't a synonym for skilled.

Turning the double play, making the cut-off, covering first on a bunt - these things are different from the right side of the infield. Being serviceable at SS does not suddenly make one great at 2B.


Not saying they will be great, but getting to the ball is half the game. Throwing errors should decrease by playing either closer to first (2B) or with less attempts (3B). The rest is just getting comfortable with a new position. Their first season will be a learning curve, but they should be fine otherwise.


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