I don't know what his point was. You'd have to ask him. But it someone owns a gun, that is certainly the most efficient and easiest way to kill somebody else. For whatever reason, he wanted you to agree on that. I guess you don't. It seems obvious to me that it is. And I think it's clear that I'm not in favor of gun control laws.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I agree with your premise, but I don't agree with the first part. It is easier, especially for an idiot, to kill somebody with a gun than with any other method.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I am in favor of some gun control laws. But knowing how fragile life is I guess I just can't agree that guns are the easiest way. There's hundreds of ways to kill someone. What's to say what is easiest? Would it be easy to just run down a bunch of people with a truck? Easy to light a match in the basement of an apartment building and chain the exits? Yeah. That could be called easy.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Then why don't people looking to protect themselves stock up on knives, pipe bombs, and castor beans? Simple: guns are the single most effective weapon for concealing and killing in a moment's notice. They were designed for it.

The pro-gun side is always disingenuous. They always say that stricter gun control laws wouldn't save any lives and that guns basically aren't even dangerous. It's wrong, and it's not even the right argument to make.

The correct argument is this: stricter gun laws would likely save some lives, but I'm not willing to give up my freedom for a few saved lives. It's a perfectly valid argument, and it's one that is made in other scenarios all the time (though subtly).

I just wish the pro-gun side would embrace an argument that is actually truthful and is a better argument anyway.

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I don't think stricter gun laws would likely save lives.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If one kid didn't have a gun that accidentally went off and killed him as a result of stricter gun laws, that would be one life that was saved as a result of them. That would count, no?

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They aren't going to be obeying that law though.

Sure it would. But you're only taking into account one side of this hypothetical. The strictest gun control laws would be to just ban all of them. You do that, and you create a much larger black market for them than there already is. That in turn leads to more organized crime, which leads to more death and violence. I don't think you can say with any degree of certainty that the outcome will lead to less death.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Are we talking self defense now? I thought we were talking about ease of murder. Leash you're all over the map here on your premise.
I disagree that stricter gun laws save lives for the simple fact that a) laws do not prevent criminals from committing crimes and b) there are mountains of evidence to support the claim that crime increases with tightened gun control laws.
For example, were there any shortage of gun crimes in Chicago during the strictest ban on weapons in america? Not really. And interestingly, violent crime is down since the ban was revoked under Mcdonald v. Chicago.
Look bans only stop people who are not criminals from getting guns. If there any way to disprove that I would love to hear it. Now naturally I understand there's your honest guy who owns one and snaps or accidents or the off chance that something happens I get that but we're talking tiny percentages of legal owners who this happens to.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

You realize more kids die in bathtubs than from gun accidents?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I'm not all over the map. You're focusing on insignificant details. The question is whether it is easier to up and kill someone with a gun. The answer is yes. Guns make killing someone much, much easier.

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This is the problem. This is not a debate about gun control, so you don't need to bring in these examples. We're not debating gun control! We are simply trying to agree on whether or not guns are dangerous or whatever variation we are on of the argument now.

Let me ask you this question: Let's say it could be proven without a shadow of a doubt that banning guns saved 10 lives a year in the U.S. No one could argue the numbers because they were very, very clear and the data was accepted by everyone. Would you be okay with banning guns to undoubtedly save 10 lives a year in the U.S. every year?

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Let's say it could be proven without a shadow of a doubt that banning all food(such as red meat, pizza, fried foods, sweets, beer, soda, etc) except certain government mandated meals saved 100 lives a year in the US. No one could argue the numbers because they were very, very clear and the data was accepted by everyone. Would you be okay with banning these foods to undoubtedly save 100 lives a year in the U.S. every year?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Answering questions with questions makes for great discussion...

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This is my signature...

Leash knows my answer to his question. My answer is no.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Great discussion about the school incident. A lot of great points have been made about mental illness.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Not on purpose though.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

They dont have a lot of gun violence do they?

What's their secret?

Politeness and bitter cold.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

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So what is the vision for the future?

Are we gonna be going to mental health professionals like we go to doctors? Once a year or when things come up?


Its been so ingrained with the stigma it still seems odd to be a normal thing (but I think the numbers show its a pretty significant percentage of people)

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Even in the 80's and even in a comedy, the idea that a principal would literally say "you'll never amount anything just like your loser father and all your family" is pretty fucking far fetched.


Only that guy with that voice and that bald head could pull it off

In his defense, Marty was a slacker.

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I like the idea of a battle of the bands guy disqualifying a band for being "too darn loud" at a time when Heavy Metal and Glam Rock were taking over.


Also, why dont we ever meet any of Marty's band? They seem very unimportant in his life

I'm not sure. IMO there are 2 extremes. You have parents who will take a kid and get them medicated for just being a kid and you have those who ignore obvious signs for years and the child never gets the treatment they needed.

Now the funding is being provided. That should help.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I'm fairly certain this is the funniest thing I'll read all day.

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Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

You're my internet hero.

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Sex isn't dirty, sex isn't a crime. It's a loving act between two or more consenting adults.

-Hank Kingsley

You just say that because his future was shakey ...

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George