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Seacrest
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:16 am 
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SomeGuy wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
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veganfan21 wrote:
If anything, what I find most objectionable are NRA folks, whether spokesmen or lobbyists, campaigning against things like stricter background checks. Why wouldn't fair minded individuals agree to something like stricter background checks for weapons? They exploit the debate about rights to ensure more profits, and in doing so I think they're being irresponsible, to be kind. Mind you I don't think stricter background checks would have prevented some of the more recent atrocities, but who knows? It should be harder to purchase a semi automatic gun than it is to get a loan to finance a car purchase, for example. Law abiding, mentally healthy citizens should be able to purchase guns, but gun manufacturers shouldn't be able to sell them to just anyone.


Manufacturers can't sell them to anybody.


Why does Henry Rifles run commercials then?


Are you purposely being stupid?


No.

I'm OK with asking questions about stuff I don't know.
I have posted here a number of times that I'm OK with people owning guns, but I do not.
Ask Don Tiny, he reads all my posts.

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:32 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
If anything, what I find most objectionable are NRA folks, whether spokesmen or lobbyists, campaigning against things like stricter background checks. Why wouldn't fair minded individuals agree to something like stricter background checks for weapons? They exploit the debate about rights to ensure more profits, and in doing so I think they're being irresponsible, to be kind. Mind you I don't think stricter background checks would have prevented some of the more recent atrocities, but who knows? It should be harder to purchase a semi automatic gun than it is to get a loan to finance a car purchase, for example. Law abiding, mentally healthy citizens should be able to purchase guns, but gun manufacturers shouldn't be able to sell them to just anyone.

What kind of additional background would you recommend checking? Currently, in Illinois, those with Felonies cannot obtain a FOID.

Be honest with the the part that had my antenna up is the "mentally healthy" part.

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chaspoppcap
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?

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veganfan21
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:44 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
What kind of additional background would you recommend checking? Currently, in Illinois, those with Felonies cannot obtain a FOID.

Be honest with the the part that had my antenna up is the "mentally healthy" part.


To be honest I don't know all of what's required in background checks for gun purchases. My post was really an incoherent complaint at what I have read/understood gun lobbyists calling for, eg less stringent checks if any when trying to buy a gun. To the extent pushback against checks is true, then I'd find something off about that. Happy to be corrected though if I'm wrong.
I didn't understand the last part of your post, can you please clarify?

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:51 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Darkside wrote:
What kind of additional background would you recommend checking? Currently, in Illinois, those with Felonies cannot obtain a FOID.

Be honest with the the part that had my antenna up is the "mentally healthy" part.


To be honest I don't know all of what's required in background checks for gun purchases. My post was really an incoherent complaint at what I have read/understood gun lobbyists calling for, eg less stringent checks if any when trying to buy a gun. To the extent pushback against checks is true, then I'd find something off about that. Happy to be corrected though if I'm wrong.
I didn't understand the last part of your post, can you please clarify?

Well you said that "law abiding, mentally healthy" citizens should be able to buy guns. I said my antenna was up on "mentally healthy" as a) mental health is a very ambiguous term, which could easily be inconsistently enforced/applied or improperly applied toward a particular ethic or political group and b) when mental health is used as a means of restricting someone from a constitutional right I would wager that it would encourage people who have minor, treatable problems from getting help that they need and exacerbating those issues for fear of permanently losing their right to own a weapon.

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pittmike
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:56 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?


That was my first thought. ID and checks for one right but not another?

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veganfan21
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:00 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?


That was my first thought. ID and checks for one right but not another?


I haven't read the entire thread yet, but where is this not wanting to show an ID when voting thing coming from?

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:00 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?


That was my first thought. ID and checks for one right but not another?

I honestly cannot even begin to understand why it's a problem to ID for a ballot. It makes no sense to me.

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:10 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
pittmike wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?


That was my first thought. ID and checks for one right but not another?


I haven't read the entire thread yet, but where is this not wanting to show an ID when voting thing coming from?

It's a common theme come election time. Traditionally, Republicans want you to have an ID to be able to cast a vote, and Democrats do not think it should be necessary.

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Seacrest
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:10 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
pittmike wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?


That was my first thought. ID and checks for one right but not another?

I honestly cannot even begin to understand why it's a problem to ID for a ballot. It makes no sense to me.


I'm having trouble believing this statement.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:11 pm 
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How are the kids doing? Have we learned anything about what made the kid stab a bunch of people? Anything about his mental health?

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pittmike
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:13 pm 
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I did not mean to derail the whole thread but Chas had a valid thought. Everyone (many not all liberal) seems to clamor for firearm ID's and background checks. I agree with that. However, the same type of people are dead set against an ID fr the other right, voting. We can do this in another thread.

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Krazy Ivan
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:16 pm 
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Cast an illegal vote


Purchase a deadly weapon





hmmmmm.....

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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:18 pm 
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Nas wrote:
How are the kids doing? Have we learned anything about what made the kid stab a bunch of people? Anything about his mental health?


This is a discussion. If we were people who were actually solving the problems of the world, I'd be with you. But we aren't. So we discuss what interests us.

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: And Another
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
Cast an illegal vote


Purchase a deadly weapon





hmmmmm.....

You can purchase a deadly weapon if you're a teenager and don't have an ID at all.

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Krazy Ivan
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:19 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Krazy Ivan wrote:
Cast an illegal vote


Purchase a deadly weapon





hmmmmm.....

You can purchase a deadly weapon if you're a teenager and don't have an ID at all.



Cool.......cool, cool.


Guns are just tools. Like any other tool. I get it.

Guns for everybody.

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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:20 pm 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?


Who? No one on here has said anything about voter IDs. Please stop making this a Democrat/Republican battle. No one gives a shit about either of them.

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:22 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Darkside wrote:
pittmike wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?


That was my first thought. ID and checks for one right but not another?

I honestly cannot even begin to understand why it's a problem to ID for a ballot. It makes no sense to me.


I'm having trouble believing this statement.

You shouldn't. Because I don't get it. You need ID for cigs, beer and even cough syrup. Why is it so bad to provide an ID when voting?

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Hawg Ass
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:23 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?


Who? No one on here has said anything about voter IDs. Please stop making this a Democrat/Republican battle. No one gives a shit about either of them.

I vote Leash!!!

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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: And Another
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... and while we're at it, there are plenty of gun advocates who lead a charge in the name of "freedom" who are okay with the Patriot Act, increased surveillance under the current administration, and bombing our own citizens with drones. Inconsistency is abound.

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leashyourkids
 Post subject: Re: And Another
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Hawg Ass wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?


Who? No one on here has said anything about voter IDs. Please stop making this a Democrat/Republican battle. No one gives a shit about either of them.

I vote Leash!!!


Thanks Hawg. I think I'm still in the running.

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Krazy Ivan
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Ok....for the gun folk.

What say you? Is everything fine just the way it is as far as guns go? Just the right amount of violence? Too much? Not enough guns. Too many guns?

I really would like to get a handle on what other people think about guns in this country. The arguments usually don;t seem to offer any solutions, imo. Just point/counterpoint on safety issues or new laws....

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FavreFan
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:27 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
... and while we're at it, there are plenty of gun advocates who lead a charge in the name of "freedom" who are okay with the Patriot Act, increased surveillance under the current administration, and bombing our own citizens with drones. Inconsistency is abound.

Yeah, that's because people vote by party instead of principles.

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Hawg Ass
 Post subject: Re: And Another
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leashyourkids wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
chaspoppcap wrote:
Not to cause trouble but it seems the guys who want gun bans and real strict gun laws are against people having to show an ID to vote. I mean come on WTF?


Who? No one on here has said anything about voter IDs. Please stop making this a Democrat/Republican battle. No one gives a shit about either of them.

I vote Leash!!!


Thanks Hawg. I think I'm still in the running.

I'm sure, Brick is still trying to add you back in. :lol:

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:31 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Nas wrote:
How are the kids doing? Have we learned anything about what made the kid stab a bunch of people? Anything about his mental health?


This is a discussion. If we were people who were actually solving the problems of the world, I'd be with you. But we aren't. So we discuss what interests us.


I've read this entire thread and I'm very well aware that no one has done anything besides make the same point 100 different ways. I believe the people of CSFMB are capable of making the same point and answering my questions. Don't you agree?

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:33 pm 
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Krazy Ivan wrote:
Ok....for the gun folk.

What say you? Is everything fine just the way it is as far as guns go? Just the right amount of violence? Too much? Not enough guns. Too many guns?

I really would like to get a handle on what other people think about guns in this country. The arguments usually don;t seem to offer any solutions, imo. Just point/counterpoint on safety issues or new laws....

I don't believe for a minute that increased gun laws would do anything at all to stem violence.
Of course there's too much violence in this country.
As far as the number of guns... I just don't understand why a number of guns is relevant. Is the WWII collector with 100 guns a danger or the one guy who illegally owns 1 gun for robberies?

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:34 pm 
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Last I heard nas the kid that did the stabbing apparently doesn't remember it. They said he wasn't bullied or anything like that. So as far as motive.... I dunno

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: And Another
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Darkside wrote:
Last I heard nas the kid that did the stabbing apparently doesn't remember it. They said he wasn't bullied or anything like that. So as far as motive.... I dunno


Thanks a lot. I haven't been following the story. Drugs?

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Krazy Ivan
 Post subject: Re: And Another
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Darkside wrote:
Krazy Ivan wrote:
Ok....for the gun folk.

What say you? Is everything fine just the way it is as far as guns go? Just the right amount of violence? Too much? Not enough guns. Too many guns?

I really would like to get a handle on what other people think about guns in this country. The arguments usually don;t seem to offer any solutions, imo. Just point/counterpoint on safety issues or new laws....

I don't believe for a minute that increased gun laws would do anything at all to stem violence.
Of course there's too much violence in this country.
As far as the number of guns... I just don't understand why a number of guns is relevant. Is the WWII collector with 100 guns a danger or the one guy who illegally owns 1 gun for robberies?


So what do we do about the guy who owns 1 gun for robberies? Is there anythihg to do, in your opinion. Or do we just leave things as is?

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: And Another
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Nas wrote:
Darkside wrote:
Last I heard nas the kid that did the stabbing apparently doesn't remember it. They said he wasn't bullied or anything like that. So as far as motive.... I dunno


Thanks a lot. I haven't been following the story. Drugs?

Oh no thanks. I get randomly tested now.

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