That's terrible....

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Inresponse to Leash,No they went wayyyyy to far with the Patriot act,just like they did with NAFTA. I do not agree with the whole,if you are doing nothing wrong then you do not need to worry. We getting into the realm here of the Thought Police,theme was the point Of the new Capt America movie. We can not keep giving up our freedoms and expect to be a free country.

Now onto the gun issue. As I brought up before one of the big reasons why the Old West in reality was not like we see in TV and movies is that the rate of gun violence was low way low why? Because everybody was packing and knew how to use it. Same reason why the amount of gun violence in Switzerland and Israel is so low. One thing that most gun advocates do not want to speak about is the link between gun violence and the illegal drug culture. Fix the drug laws and I bet we will see a huge drop in shootings. Also,spend money on mental health education. Start trying to remove the stigma. People need to not be araid to go get help when thye need it plus it needs to be there for it. For all the bullshit the Democrats talk about wanting to help people the first programs they lways cut are Mental Health services. Both sides share blame and need to pull their heads out of asses and start to really help people instead of just talking points.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

Well if he got caught with an illegal firearm it is generally confiscated and destroyed as I understand it. I'm not sure what to do to eliminate black market guns. I don't think anything can be done except to find ways to dismantle the black market but in my opinion that never works.

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No.

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You shouldn't be so pessimistic my friend. Have some faith. DS has already proven that it could be done.

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GO BEARS!!!

What else do you believe would make someone do something like this and not remember?

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Some serious math problems in that article.

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I guess that's where we differ. We both see a problem, but I just don;t want to believe there is nothing that can be done about it. I want someone to try. Sure, another law may fail...but why just say "it probably wont work"?

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I was being cynical.

However I do think it would be tough for us to talk about mental health legislation. I wouldn't know where to start, personally.

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What do you think should be done about it?

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Are there?

Im just trying to determine what the deal in Europe is and if there system is better

Well what do you think would be the way to solve that problem? How do you disarm those who cannot legally own firearms? Or thing I can think of right now is much stiffer penalties for illegally possessing firearms which I would support.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
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Yeah. They assumed that the number of total firearms owned in the us divided by the population gave an ownership percentage which is false. Also they said that the roughly 2000 gun deaths in France is so much less than the 10000 in the us while not taking into account the significance of the population difference. The per capita wouldn't be significantly different. Odd.

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I believe stricter gun laws should be introduced. I believe it should be extremely difficult for any civilian to own a gun. I think handguns should be outright illegal in most areas. I think less guns should be manufactured. I think more time should be spent focusing on guns with less focused on "the war on drugs".


Really, I want the number of handguns to dwindle. To me, the only real use of a handgun is to kill another person. I don't like people getting killed, in general.

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Probably


I'm not being unreasonable. I just want guns to magically disappear...

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Well there are a few things that could be done and unlike most problems throwing money at it can be the start of fixing it. Making the stigma go away by educating people. Making it less shameful to go seek help.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

OK so I would like to counterpoint some of your thoughts... not that they're wrong or anything... just my thoughts on what you're saying. I do appreciate the fact that you're offering possible solutions. This is great. Much better than the guys who just say get ridf of them but don't offer a way to do it so thank you...

believe stricter gun laws should be introduced. I believe it should be extremely difficult for any civilian to own a gun.
How does this get the guns out of the hands of those who own them illegally, as per the discussion? The problem is that they are illegally carrying... making the laws stricter (other than stronger mandatory sentences for those who break this law) doesn't get disarm those who are willing to break the law.

I believe it should be extremely difficult for any civilian to own a gun. I think handguns should be outright illegal in most areas.
The problem with this is that our constitution gives us these rights. Handguns are the perfect weapon for the stated purpose of guns in our constitution, self defense. It may be difficult for a disabled or elderly individual to defend themselves with a long rifle or shotgun, and neither a shotgun nor rifle are less deadly anyway, so limiting gun ownership to those particular weapons does little to protect life in my opinion.

I think less guns should be manufactured.
The problem with this is that you cannot legislate the manufacture of guns outside the US, where a whole lot of weapons are made. I suppose you could limit the importation of these guns though... Not sure what international laws apply here.

Really, I want the number of handguns to dwindle. To me, the only real use of a handgun is to kill another person. I don't like people getting killed, in general
I would disagree that handguns are only useful in killing people. I use mine for entertainment, shooting is a fun way to spend a day to me. Many people are collectors. The vast majority of handguns are used perfectly peacefully.
I don't like people getting killed either. It sucks.

The main point I think that should be emphasized is that the people doing the killing and using weapons to otherwise harm people are folks who would not obey laws in the first place. Therefore I think its reasonable to say that stricter ownership laws would only restrict people who intend to use their weapons peacefully, which in my opinion, misses the target of the law.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
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Not surprising or odd considering what the title of the article is....

That would be true if legal guns were never used to commit illegal acts.

I've never associated real guns with "fun". They've always been a source of fear or anger to me...

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I have always associated them with hunting, unfortunately there are wack jobs in this world we live in.

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Yeah, I wouldn't pretend to know the data but I'd wager that legally owned weapons aren't used to commit illegal acts as often as illegally owned ones, but I wouldn't deny that it certainly happens, such as like that goof Kustok or Spector.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
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This leads me to my "Crescent Hammer" theory. If I didn't have a hammer, I'd use a crescent wrench to drive a nail in a pinch.
I think that if guns were somehow eliminated, we'd find other ways to hurt people we wanted to hurt.

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Stricter laws.
As people who live in or near Chicago you see how that turns out. How about enforceing the ones we have on the books right now. In Cook Country is a class 3 felony if you are caught carrying an illegal gun. Look at the statistics,almost no one is ever brought up on these charges they usually plea out to lesser or they are dropped. If you get caught with a gun that you should not have then make it a 10 year no early release in the IDOC,period. Next time 15 years, then just add 5 every time till they are in for life.
Add that in with making weed legal and release those in prison who are in there for drug offences. Now the drugs that are illegal you nail dealers hard. Users get rehab for the first two times then you start scaling up the incarceration time. Cheaper to send them to rehab then prison and it is not a black mark on their record to getting employment.

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When I am stuck and need to figure something out I always remember the Immortal words of Socrates when he said:"I just drank what?"

And I think that is what divides a lot of us. Our viewpoints are shaped by our environments or where/how we grew up.

It's one thing to read about a kid getting killed or hear it in passing on the news. Knowing the kid fuckin sucks...

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I am on your team Darko, I understand what you are saying.

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Or those stricter laws force people into the black market....

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I'm pretty sure no one was using it as an argument. He just said it sucked.

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