That's a fantasy baseball argument. I don't know anyone who picks players in real life.

There are all kinds of guys with higher ERAs who are better pitchers than guys with lower ones. I know you don't believe Joel Horlen was better than Catfish Hunter.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Really. Smart. People.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

That is pretty funny.

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It's a common sense argument. No scout or player personnel guy is evaluating a pitcher solely on W/L. Especially considering a pitcher could lose a game without giving up an earned run. Fantasy baseball didn't cause scouts and other evaluators to start using common sense.

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JORR wrote:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/paigesa01.shtml

Leroy Robert "Satchel" Paige was an American baseball player whose pitching in the Negro leagues and in Major League Baseball made him a legend in his own lifetime. He was elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1971.

Took me all of 1 minute to find him on Baseball Reference. Still have time to go find easter eggs with the kids

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fingero01.shtml Rollie Fingers

Just in case you have something against the negro league players JORR.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/suttebr01.shtml Bruce Sutter

This is getting embarrissing

Fantasy baseball is the reason why they won all of those awards and made it to the HoF. They clearly gave up too many runs and lost too many games.

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Wait wait, it was the umpires and the weather conditions that aided them in their quest toward the HoF.

Don't forget, Felix Hernandez won the Cy Young Award in 2010 with a 13–12 record. I know that is not a losing record, but the guy won the CY YOUNG (named after the best pitcher of all time) with a 1 game (Let me say that again) 1 game! above .500 record.

Case closed. My work is done here.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You guys underestimate the battery of Wilbur Wood to Brian Downing. Sit there Essian Brian has this.

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Elections have consequences.

Who is talking about relief pitchers, you fucking moron? And Satchel Paige barely had a big league career. I know enough about the damn game that I don't need to look it up.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Never seen JORR this upset.

_________________

I was just shocked to be bigtimed by a guy who thinks Cy Young is the best pitcher ever. And confused since Cy doesnt have the lowest ERA.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I always like to think of Jorr as John Mahoney looking gentleman. This is unbecoming. Almost savage.

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Elections have consequences.

Why is he so angry? All Juiced did was point out that he was WRONG. Why should relievers be exceptions? Why was Felix Hernandez a Cy Young winner? I can only assume it was because he was GREAT despite his offense being so AWFUL. I would ask JORR but I want to wait for him to calm down first.

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Eric Gagne won the Cy Yound award despite having a losing record in 2003. His 1.20 ERA just wasn't good enough.

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This guy sucked his way into the HoF.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... te01.shtml

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Who was the better pitcher in 2004?

Ben Sheets

12 wins 14 losses 2.70 ERA 264 strikeouts 5 complete games 237 IP 0.98 WHIP .226 batting average against 8/1 strikeout to walk ratio

Bartolo Colon

18 wins 12 losses 5.01 ERA 158 strikeouts 0 complete games 208.1 IP 1.37WHIP .265 batting average against 2/1 strikeout to walk ratio

According to JORR Colon had a better season and was the better pitcher. Regardless of how many games a person has seen in their life that is a very dumb baseball thought.

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Wins arent worthless though

It is a good way to judge a starting pitcher over a career. (You wont find many good ones with sub 500 records or vice versa)

No one has said that they are worthless.

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If I didn't know better I would think you have never seen a big league baseball game. You're fuckin' right Colon was better than Sheets. Just like he was better than Santana the next year when he won a well-deserved Cy Young. In fact, Colon is the poster boy for the kind of pitcher I'm talking about. He's a winner. And Ben Sheets was a fucking loser.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

W/L record doesn't tell you a damn thing about a relief pitcher.

But don't you find it the slightest bit ironic that the one thing Cy Young is known for is his W/L record. It isn't called the Ed Walsh Award, you know.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I have nothing else to offer then. You're likely the only guy that can see those numbers and say Colon was better that season.

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He also lost more games than any other player.

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Are you trying to make my argument with Lyons or yours? Because he won 260 games and had a .531 win percentage while pitching on some of the most atrocious teams in White Sox history. How the fuck did he manage to win 22 games and post nearly a .600 percentage in 1930 when his team won only 62 games and was next to last in scoring? Why wasn't he "Hard Luck Pete" like poor Jeff Samardzija?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

No Shit. But he had a hell of a winning percentage.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

He was better that season and every other season he ever pitched. He's just a better pitcher than Ben Sheets. And he's on a shitty team this year and he'll still probably post another winning record. I don't know where the fuck Ben Sheets is. Probably wallpapering a fucking bathroom.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I wasn't there and didn't get a chance to hear the games but looking at his ERA it appears the offense scored a lot of runs when he started.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!