There's a ton of things people do every day that lead them to not be in good shape in any aspect of their life that are completely legal. I just don't think you should control someone's behavior if they aren't harming anybody. You disagree. That's fine.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That's kind of weird you think of not wanting someone to be on meth because they aren't hurting anybody but themselves as controlling their behavior. Can't that be used for a lot of alcoholics too?

There's a difference between "not wanting someone to be on meth" and "wanting someone to be punished legally for doing meth". I don't want people I care about becoming meth addicts or alcoholics, but I also don't want them to go to jail if they decide to use one or the other.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Most people drink responsibly. You can have a beer, glass of wine, or a drink or 2 socially & not get hammered. People frequently drink without getting wasted.
Drugs are used to get fucked up 100% of the time.
I'm pretty sure that heroin & crack are more dangerous than alcohol.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

Man those quotes are great right after each other.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

FF, Do you get hammered every time you drink? Do you ever have a beer or glass of wine socially without getting hammered? Do you know people who give a toast with a shot of heroin?

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

No, that would not be an apology.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Alcohol = heroin = crystal meth?

...and they say I argue just to argue. There is no way even FavreFan believes that. He is just so invested in his "all drugs should be legal because Ron Paul" stance that he has to think that.

I can only imagine what my life would be like if every night I had alcohol I instead did heroin or crystal meth.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Scorehead this is absolutely untrue. Maybe this is what you did. That doesnt mean it's true of everyone in the world.

Many people, in fact most of the people I know who smoke, do a very small amount just to relax. Kinda like when people drink responsibly and have a drink or two to take the edge off.


How could you not know this?

I dont think you're accurately representing his stance.

Heroin and Crystal Meth might be equal to alcohol on addiction. That's just science. And the thing about being harmful to others doesnt sound that crazy either.


Im sure the effect on the user is worse but I dont think FF said anything about that

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I believe he meant dangerous to other people.

FaveFan can defend himself if that is what he meant but that isn't how I read it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah, Im sure he will. Maybe he DID mean it the way you read it.


I believe he believes whatever it is though

Rick, did you read the link I posted? Before we get into this I want to know if I'll be talking to someone about facts or DARE talking points.

I never claimed alcohol = meth = heroin. They aren't the same. My point is that the latter two are not significantly more dangerous in and of themselves to the user or those around the user than alcohol. And that would be 10x easier for someone like you to digest if you think of them as adderall and oxycontin. It's the same drug.

I'll put it this way - I think if you're worried about public safety more than liberty, you should be in favor of banning alcohol if you're in favor of banning any drug. But because it's legal and regulated and sold at convenience stores you and you saw some Not Even Once meth ads you think your alcohol is relatively harmless but meth will ruin your life if you did it even one time. It's not remotely accurate.

And stop with the bullshit of saying I don't believe this. I wouldn't be wasting my time if I didn't.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So they aren't the same. They are just almost the same?
I also believe you are incorrect comparing adderall and crystal meth. One is an amphetamine. The other is a methamphetamine. There are key differences between them.

You are correct that oxycontin and heroin share many similarities. Oxycontin is bad too, even though it is legal in certain ways. I don't understand the relevance though. I'm not exactly on a pro-oxycontin agenda here.

Let me get back to my hypothetical.
Lets say that starting on my 21st birthday, I proceeded to use one of these drugs every Friday and Saturday night:
Alcohol
Heroin
Crystal Meth

10 years later, should I expect to be in the same position if I had chosen alcohol as I would be on heroin and crystal meth? Would I be just as healthy?
Ron Paul! Liberty! No thanks. I can take an approach that isn't all or nothing on this and feel comfortable. It doesn't come down to ban all drugs or ban none of them and there is no reason to think those are the only options. I will say that our alcohol laws could use reform too.
I don't think alcohol is relatively harmless. I don't think your life will be ruined by taking meth once(though I still would not recommend it).

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I was wrong about FF saying.

I don't believe the government should be able to tell me what I can or can't put in my body. That said, I do believe there has to be laws when that action affects other people.

So why shouldn't people be allowed to do whatever drug they want if they aren't driving or harming other people? If you are dumb enough to do those drugs so be it.




Sidenote: This was my hard and firm stance before the changes in healthcare. Now because of Obamacare, one can safely argue that we should be policing everything going in to people's bodies (soda, alcohol, drugs, fats, etc). Thanks Obama!

I think as long as the science is sound and the process still ultimately follows democratic principles they should be able to. You and me aren't smart enough and we don't have the time to learn everything about everything. You may have researched crystal meth and made an informed decision but not everyone will be as fortunate.

It's the same reason we have prescriptions and we don't just sell any medicinal drug without a sign off by a trained professional. Ultimately, it is for the safety of the individual. They lose some "liberty" by being forced to seek the help of someone who knows more than them but ultimately it's a good tradeoff.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't think we have to protect people from themselves. If it was legal, it would be properly tested with the effects documented and presented to the public. It would be regulated. There would be warning labels. Would it be perfect? Nope. It would be just like alcohol, but that's fine.


And still, I get the FDA and why it's there. If drugs were available that weren't FDA approved and people want to take it knowing the risks, that's fine. It's their life. We have a limited time on earth, we should be able to live it the way we want as long as we aren't hurting others.

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Except it is much more dangerous than alcohol. Almost everyone agrees that crystal meth is much more dangerous than alcohol. We have to draw the line somewhere.
You seem to have glossed over the fact that it is as much about the inability for everyone to be educated on everything. FavreFan doesn't even know the difference between crystal meth and adderall, and he seems to have researched the topic. One of the reasons that newer drugs become popular is that they are claimed by the sellers to be "less dangerous than drug X". Misinformation is easy. That is why we have to place some trust in the government to do what is in the best interest of the citizens. Besides libertarian theory of "as long as it isn't hurting someone else" there really isn't a good reason for crystal meth to be legal. As a society, we should be able to decide that. The reasons are very good why we would want to make crystal meth illegal.

I think it's important for a modern civilization to have educated and dedicated professionals that help make decisions that I am not educated enough to make. That may mean that I lose some liberty when a panel of health professionals decide that crystal meth is bad for me, and that alcohol is bad in other ways of usage, and that carrots are good for me. I can handle it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Do you feel as if these health professionals make such declarations in the interest of your well-being ?

Yes.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You are quite a trusting old soul

The American Medical Association probably has a chart on him.

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We're talking about heroin & crack.

Again, people drink responsibly all of the time. A glass of wine with dinner, a toast before dinner, a beer after work.
No one can use heroin or crack without the intent of getting fucked up.

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

To be clear, Im just saying I was wrong in my understanding of what FF said about the damage to the user

I can only go off what you write SH

Well since you mentioned it...

A person can have a glass of wine & not be impaired. Can someone smoke weed & not be impaired? I don't think so.

_________________
CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan