World Series Contenders

Big Chicagoan · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:28 pm

I think its easier to get a pitcher on a 1-2 year deal that can perform than it is to find a hitter on a similar deal. Mostly because injuries and down years have a big impact on a pitcher's value. For the Cubs to sign a bat with similar upside to a pitcher coming off an injury or bad year, they would need to sign someone coming off a suspension.

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

Big Chicagoan wrote:

I think its easier to get a pitcher on a 1-2 year deal that can perform than it is to find a hitter on a similar deal. Mostly because injuries and down years have a big impact on a pitcher's value. For the Cubs to sign a bat with similar upside to a pitcher coming off an injury or bad year, they would need to sign someone coming off a suspension.

Manny!

good dolphin · **Joined:** Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm **Posts:** 82152

but seriously, the farther we get into this rebuild, the more it should annoy you

Those long term contracts that couldn't be done because they would block prospect all would be coming due in this or next year...just as the prospects are ready to compete at MLB.

The REBUILD was necessary. The PAIN of the rebuild was not.

That is why it is such a bitch that should this thing work, the accolades the front office will receive. They gave up A LOT to get to that point, more than I would be comfortable accepting.

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:28 pm

good dolphin wrote:

but seriously, the farther we get into this rebuild, the more it should annoy you

Those long term contracts that couldn't be done because they would block prospect all would be coming due in this or next year...just as the prospects are ready to compete at MLB.

The REBUILD was necessary. The PAIN of the rebuild was not.

That is why it is such a bitch that should this thing work, the accolades the front office will receive. They gave up A LOT to get to that point, more than I would be comfortable accepting.

The PAIN was necessary. Theo has been who he was in Boston. It's imaginary Cubs fans and media who've built him up and bitter Sox fans knocking him down. The cat is a two trick pony:
1. Accrue more draft picks than anyone else and use wealth to draft overslot and sign international picks
2. Use free agency to hide failures.

Jerry rules ruined trick #1 so he's tweaked that trick by tanking. Tanking allows him to still have more money than mostly everyone else. Ricketts rules have ruined number two.

Simple as that. He's just attempting to apply the same strategy he used in Boston. Guys like Bernstein and Rozner are the ones painting him as some Oracle.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:30 pm

Kirkwood wrote:

It's Cubs fans and media who've built him up

Now this is a true statement.

Brick · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:32 pm

Kirkwood wrote:

The PAIN was necessary. Theo has been who he was in Boston. It's imaginary Cubs fans and media who've built him up and bitter Sox fans knocking him down. The cat is a two trick pony:
1. Accrue more draft picks than anyone else and use wealth to draft overslot and sign international picks
2. Use free agency to hide failures.

Jerry rules ruined trick #1 so he's tweaked that trick by tanking. Tanking allows him to still have more money than mostly everyone else. Ricketts rules have ruined number two.

Simple as that. He's just attempting to apply the same strategy he used in Boston. Guys like Bernstein and Rozner are the ones painting him as some Oracle.

I have a feeling when you have a flat tire that you blame it on the White Sox and their fans.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Kirkwood is right about Cub fans having to answer for Bernstein and Rozner's idiocy

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:36 pm

There's plenty of Cubs fans who think the same way though. Not all of them, and certainly not all on this board, but there is a good chunk of them who felt that Theo was going to have this team in the WS 4 out of 5 years once he got going. That definitely has been tempered a bit, but its still out there to an extent.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Frank Coztansa wrote:

There's plenty of Cubs fans who think the same way though. Not all of them, and certainly not all on this board, but there is a good chunk of them who felt that Theo was going to have this team in the WS 4 out of 5 years once he got going. That definitely has been tempered a bit, but its still out there to an extent.

Come on.

No one ever said that. Not one person on this planet said that ever.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:39 pm

I'm sure one person did, but the point is that there was a LOT of Cubs fans who felt that because of Theo's track record he was going to have this team in the playoffs almost year in and year out after a couple of seasons and some of that bad Hendry money was off the books.

Part of that is ownership, but part of it is the front office too.

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:41 pm

Frank Coztansa wrote:

There's plenty of Cubs fans who think the same way though. Not all of them, and certainly not all on this board, but there is a good chunk of them who felt that Theo was going to have this team in the WS 4 out of 5 years once he got going. That definitely has been tempered a bit, but its still out there to an extent.

Theo said that's his goal. Sustainable success. Cubs fans are simply synergizing their expectations to align with Lord Theo to maximize their enjoyment so they'll be on the right side of history.

RFDC · **Joined:** Sun May 11, 2008 4:11 pm **Posts:** 57199

Frank Coztansa wrote:

I'm sure one person did, but the point is that there was a LOT of Cubs fans who felt that because of Theo's track record he was going to have this team in the playoffs almost year in and year out after a couple of seasons and some of that bad Hendry money was off the books.

Part of that is ownership, but part of it is the front office too.

Share with all of us one person who has said anythign even close to this

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:40 pm

You asked for one RFDC, here is a few. All but one from this thread; viewtopic.php?f=32&t=63153&hilit=playoffs

Darkside;

Quote:

Ok, so we have a new GM. What are realistic goals for this guy?
First realistic goal should be a division championship within 3 years.
Next, a visit to the NLCS within 5.
A win in the NLCS by year 6.

Nas:

Quote:

Epstein is one of the top 3 baseball guys in the game. I think the Epstein hire can be the cure for many of the Cubs problems. The biggest problem the Cubs have had has been developing major league talent in the minors. He has a proven track record of doing that. Other than Dusty's run (that was filled with injuries to their best players) the Cubs haven't really put a championship caliber team on the field. IMO finding a really good baseball guy (not a scout) is the thing the Cubs needed to do a long time ago. I believe this team can compete in the next year or 2 with the right moves and be in position to compete for years to come after that.

Big Chicagoan;

Quote:

2012:

Fires Quade, Hires Sandberg
Trades Z
Cuts Soriano
Signs Fielder
Signs a SP
Signs 2-3 other mid/low range free agents
Possibly trades Soto at some point next season as well.
Spends like a madman on the draft like last year

Cubs win 75 games

2013:

Fill in with a couple prospects, sign big name Pitcher

Cubs win 88 games

2014:

Sign top hitter

Cubs win 95 games
NL Champions

2015:

Sign top of line SP

Cubs win 94 games
WS Champions

2016:

Total disappointment.

8675309;

Quote:

2012 - .500 clear dead weight
2013 Make playoffs
2014 Defeat the White A Holes in World Series (Expansion team in Jackson Hole after White Sox and A's folded)

At this point I may not be too far off;

Hank Scorpio wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

2012-2015 are very lean, but getting better

2016 is a good year overall, but miss the playoffs

2017 win the division, lose in the NLCS

2018 lead NL in wins, lose in the WS

2019, 2020, miss playoffs, he leaves town.

You really think that in 9 years, in the NL Central mind you, that he is only going to get to the playoffs twice???

He's 0-3, Hank. 2-6 would be pretty good wouldn't you say?

mofo might have been onto something too :lol:

Quote:

2012 - "it was only his first year, it will take time"
2013 - "it was only his second year, it will take time"
2014 - "it was only his third year, it will take time"
2015 - "it was only his fourth year, it will take time"
2016 - "Ricketts is an idiot, if Epstein was that good the Red Sox would never have let him go."

Rod · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:41 pm

Looks like a lot of people said that. Your move, RFDC.

Brick · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:43 pm

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:45 pm

Yea, good one I guess. All those scenarios were made with the assumption Theo would be able to work in similar conditions as Boston. Not sure if you've noticed but Ricketts has given Theo a budget a smidge smaller than in Boston. Just an FYI.

Rod · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:47 pm

Kirkwood wrote:

Yea, good one I guess. All those scenarios were made with the assumption Theo would be able to work in similar conditions as Boston. Not sure if you've noticed but Ricketts has given Theo a budget a smidge smaller than in Boston. Just an FYI.

My God, man! Are you on Theo's payroll?

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:52 pm

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Kirkwood wrote:

Yea, good one I guess. All those scenarios were made with the assumption Theo would be able to work in similar conditions as Boston. Not sure if you've noticed but Ricketts has given Theo a budget a smidge smaller than in Boston. Just an FYI.

My God, man! Are you on Theo's payroll?

No. I just don't wear these when assessing Theo:

lipidquadcab · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:52 pm

Frank wrote:

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:52 pm

Kirkwood wrote:

Not sure if you've noticed but Ricketts has given Theo a budget a smidge smaller than in Boston. Just an FYI.

Not sure if you noticed, but what did the Red Sox do under Theo in 2012, which was his final year there? They were one of the worst teams in baseball and were extremely lucky the Dodgers had all of Magic's AIDS money to spend. Just an FYI.

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:55 pm

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Kirkwood wrote:

Not sure if you've noticed but Ricketts has given Theo a budget a smidge smaller than in Boston. Just an FYI.

Not sure if you noticed, but what did the Red Sox do under Theo in 2012, which was his final year there? They were one of the worst teams in baseball and were extremely lucky the Dodgers had all of Magic's AIDS money to spend. Just an FYI.

Great point! :lol:

Hank Scorpio · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:04 pm

I stand by that statement. With the expanded WC, they should be making the playoffs every year.

Kirkwood · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:04 pm

I just need some clarification here. Cubs fans are stupid for expecting Theo should have a World Series contender within 5 years. But Cubs fans are also stupid for no longer expecting the Cubs to be World Series contenders within that 5 year window.

So they're are stupid no matter what. Yes, it's only year 3 but we can determine a conclusion on Theo just like we can conclude on June 6th who are serious contenders. Excellent.

Brick · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:05 pm

Kirkwood wrote:

I just need some clarification here. Cubs fans are stupid for expecting Theo should have a World Series contender within 5 years. But Cubs fans are also stupid for no longer expecting the Cubs to be World Series contenders within that 5 year window.

So they're are stupid no matter what. Yes, it's only year 3 but we can determine a conclusion on Theo just like we can conclude on June 6th who are serious contenders. Excellent.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Frank Coztansa wrote:

You asked for one RFDC, here is a few. All but one from this thread; viewtopic.php?f=32&t=63153&hilit=playoffs

Darkside;

Quote:

Ok, so we have a new GM. What are realistic goals for this guy?
First realistic goal should be a division championship within 3 years.
Next, a visit to the NLCS within 5.
A win in the NLCS by year 6.

Nas:

Quote:

Epstein is one of the top 3 baseball guys in the game. I think the Epstein hire can be the cure for many of the Cubs problems. The biggest problem the Cubs have had has been developing major league talent in the minors. He has a proven track record of doing that. Other than Dusty's run (that was filled with injuries to their best players) the Cubs haven't really put a championship caliber team on the field. IMO finding a really good baseball guy (not a scout) is the thing the Cubs needed to do a long time ago. I believe this team can compete in the next year or 2 with the right moves and be in position to compete for years to come after that.

Big Chicagoan;

Quote:

2012:

Fires Quade, Hires Sandberg
Trades Z
Cuts Soriano
Signs Fielder
Signs a SP
Signs 2-3 other mid/low range free agents
Possibly trades Soto at some point next season as well.
Spends like a madman on the draft like last year

Cubs win 75 games

2013:

Fill in with a couple prospects, sign big name Pitcher

Cubs win 88 games

2014:

Sign top hitter

Cubs win 95 games
NL Champions

2015:

Sign top of line SP

Cubs win 94 games
WS Champions

2016:

Total disappointment.

8675309;

Quote:

2012 - .500 clear dead weight
2013 Make playoffs
2014 Defeat the White A Holes in World Series (Expansion team in Jackson Hole after White Sox and A's folded)

At this point I may not be too far off;

Hank Scorpio wrote:

Frank Coztansa wrote:

2012-2015 are very lean, but getting better

2016 is a good year overall, but miss the playoffs

2017 win the division, lose in the NLCS

2018 lead NL in wins, lose in the WS

2019, 2020, miss playoffs, he leaves town.

You really think that in 9 years, in the NL Central mind you, that he is only going to get to the playoffs twice???

He's 0-3, Hank. 2-6 would be pretty good wouldn't you say?

mofo might have been onto something too :lol:

Quote:

2012 - "it was only his first year, it will take time"
2013 - "it was only his second year, it will take time"
2014 - "it was only his third year, it will take time"
2015 - "it was only his fourth year, it will take time"
2016 - "Ricketts is an idiot, if Epstein was that good the Red Sox would never have let him go."

None of those said playoffs 4 out of 5.

Darkside said the GOAL should be 3 appearances (not 4 out of 5)

Big Chicagoan listed 2 seasons in the playoffs (clearly 2 is not 4)

Nas said he thought they could compete in a couple years (not even close)

8675309 was the closest and even he only predicted 2 out of 3

Hank didnt have them in the playoffs til what will be Theo's 5th year (Could still be accurate)

So despite you and your Sox fans bretheren celebrating a bunch of statements that were positive on Theo (not the parameters) can you show me one person who said 4 out of years in the playoffs?

Rod · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:07 pm

Kirkwood wrote:

So they're are stupid no matter what.

Pretty much. And it's often evidenced by their sentence structure.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

:lol:

Looks like a lot of people said that. Your move, RFDC.

Except that none of them said anything close to the Theo will be in the playoffs 4 out of 5 years.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:07 pm

I didn't say anything about being stupid. I mean, Cubs fans generally are but that is beside the point here.

Quote:

Simple as that. He's just attempting to apply the same strategy he used in Boston. Guys like Bernstein and Rozner are the ones painting him as some Oracle.

All I correctly pointed out was that there are/were at LOT of Cubs fans who think like Seacrest and Bernsteen.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Kirkwood wrote:

So they're are stupid no matter what.

Pretty much. And it's often evidenced by their sentence structure.

You really believe Sox fans are smarter. That's hilarious.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Hank Scorpio wrote:

I stand by that statement. With the expanded WC, they should be making the playoffs every year.

Yes, they should. That's a good goal but probably unrealistic. You know that.

But dont let that stop Frank from saying you predicted it would happen.

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