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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:32 pm 
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denisdman wrote:
Hatchetman wrote:
The Davidson deal turned out horribly. I thought it was iffy at the time but gave him the benefit of the doubt. Whoever did the scouting on him should get fast balls from the pitching machine aimed at his nuts.


MLB.com has Davidson as their top prospect, but his numbers have been bad this year. You miss Addison Reed? It may turn out to be a busted prospect, but you didn't give up that much.

Well, Rodon is now their top prospect on updated rankings.

But regarding pre-season rankings, he was #66 overall on MLB.com and I'm assuming he has dropped due to poor performance and the 2014 Draft.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:35 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Pretty sad when you don't have the spine to question your own team so you take potshots across town at the other team.

Bad moves: Edwin Jackson

Good moves: Your message contains 2535308 characters. The maximum number of allowed characters is 60000.

I tried. :/

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:47 pm 
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The decision to have Tyler Flowers as the White Sox starting catcher is truly an indictment of Hahn's ability to identify talent. He's been in the system since 2009 and was never able to hit above .215. For some reason Hahn saw fit to make him the starting catcher and he's been rewarded with a catcher who is hitting a robust .241 and plays uninspiring defense. Hahn roster construction was so shoddy he saw a rule 5 pick who never played above A as the best option as the back-up. The sad thing is Nieto is probably better than Flowers.

I'm sure Keyzer can better handle De Aza criticism but he was a perfect sell-high candidate after 2013. Hahn's misguided belief in career years being sustainable rears its ugly head. For Hahn to not shop the baseball IQ-less bum shows he lacks the creativity and coconuts to be a competent GM. He's as vanilla and risk averse as a potato.


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:50 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
The decision to have Tyler Flowers as the White Sox starting catcher is truly an indictment of Hahn's ability to identify talent. He's been in the system since 2009 and was never able to hit above .215. For some reason Hahn saw fit to make him the starting catcher and he's been rewarded with a catcher who is hitting a robust .241 and plays uninspiring defense. Hahn roster construction was so shoddy he saw a rule 5 pick who never played above A as the best option as the back-up. The sad thing is Nieto is probably better than Flowers.

I'm sure Keyzer can better handle De Aza criticism but he was a perfect sell-high candidate after 2013. Hahn's misguided belief in career years being sustainable rears its ugly head. For Hahn to not shop the baseball IQ-less bum shows he lacks the creativity and coconuts to be a competent GM. He's as vanilla and risk averse as a potato.

In fairness to Hahn, he cannot fix everything in one offseason. I understand why Flowers was the starting catcher this year.

There were more important positions to address first.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:52 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
The decision to have Tyler Flowers as the White Sox starting catcher is truly an indictment of Hahn's ability to identify talent. He's been in the system since 2009 and was never able to hit above .215. For some reason Hahn saw fit to make him the starting catcher and he's been rewarded with a catcher who is hitting a robust .241 and plays uninspiring defense. Hahn roster construction was so shoddy he saw a rule 5 pick who never played above A as the best option as the back-up. The sad thing is Nieto is probably better than Flowers.

I'm sure Keyzer can better handle De Aza criticism but he was a perfect sell-high candidate after 2013. Hahn's misguided belief in career years being sustainable rears its ugly head. For Hahn to not shop the baseball IQ-less bum shows he lacks the creativity and coconuts to be a competent GM. He's as vanilla and risk averse as a potato.
Fair points. Thanks for sharing.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:59 pm 
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DeAza was penciled in as a backup, not an everyday OF. How do you know he wasn't shopped in the offseason and there just weren't any takers.

It takes time to turn around a 99 loss team who was starting guys like Blake Tekkotte, Jeff Keppinger, Héctor Giménez, Josh Phegley, Tyler Greene, and who was pitching guys like Hector Santiago, Ramón Troncoso, Brian Omogrosso, David Purcey, etc. It was bad. It will get better, sooner rather than later. The Sox will not lose 90+ games three years in a row on purpose or on accident.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:55 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
DeAza was penciled in as a backup, not an everyday OF. How do you know he wasn't shopped in the offseason and there just weren't any takers.

It takes time to turn around a 99 loss team who was starting guys like Blake Tekkotte, Jeff Keppinger, Héctor Giménez, Josh Phegley, Tyler Greene, and who was pitching guys like Hector Santiago, Ramón Troncoso, Brian Omogrosso, David Purcey, etc. It was bad. It will get better, sooner rather than later. The Sox will not lose 90+ games three years in a row on purpose or on accident.



Hahn named GM Oct 26,2012

Keppinger Dec. 12. 2012 3 years 12 million
Traded to get Tekkote Nov. 7 2012
Signed free agent Greene April 1 , 2012
Signed Gimenez Jan. 9, 2012
Signed Troncoso Nov 12, 2012
Signed Purcey Nov 15, 2012

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:01 pm 
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THE INQUISITOR wrote:
Hahn named GM Oct 26,2012

Signed free agent Greene April 1 , 2012
:lol: You can't even troll correctly.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:13 pm 
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THE INQUISITOR wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
DeAza was penciled in as a backup, not an everyday OF. How do you know he wasn't shopped in the offseason and there just weren't any takers.

It takes time to turn around a 99 loss team who was starting guys like Blake Tekkotte, Jeff Keppinger, Héctor Giménez, Josh Phegley, Tyler Greene, and who was pitching guys like Hector Santiago, Ramón Troncoso, Brian Omogrosso, David Purcey, etc. It was bad. It will get better, sooner rather than later. The Sox will not lose 90+ games three years in a row on purpose or on accident.



Hahn named GM Oct 26,2012

Keppinger Dec. 12. 2012 3 years 12 million
Traded to get Tekkote Nov. 7 2012
Signed free agent Greene April 1 , 2012
Signed Gimenez Jan. 9, 2012
Signed Troncoso Nov 12, 2012
Signed Purcey Nov 15, 2012

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:14 pm 
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first year he gets a pass cuz the Chairman tied his hands. course the Chairman always ties his hands.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 9:38 pm 
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What a genius move to build one of the major's worst bullpens. It's almost as if Hahn wants to tank the season by employing Robin and enabling shitty managing by giving him a bigger pile of shit bullpen.

Seriously, who loses a trade to Kevin Towers? I don't even think 12 year olds playing fantasy could be had by that dope. Embarrassing.


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:07 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Seriously, who loses a trade to Kevin Towers? I don't even think 12 year olds playing fantasy could be had by that dope.


Are you sure the 35 year olds playing fantasy with the Cubs didn't lose a trade to him?

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:10 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
Seriously, who loses a trade to Kevin Towers? I don't even think 12 year olds playing fantasy could be had by that dope.


Are you sure the 35 year olds playing fantasy with the Cubs didn't lose a trade to him?

Yes, despite some people's desire that Cashner be something he's not.


If the Cubs had traded a guy like Rizzo for a hurt pitcher, it would be nothing but towel drill jokes and everyone would agree on the trade being a huge win for SD


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:11 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
DeAza was penciled in as a backup, not an everyday OF. How do you know he wasn't shopped in the offseason and there just weren't any takers.

It takes time to turn around a 99 loss team who was starting guys like Blake Tekkotte, Jeff Keppinger, Héctor Giménez, Josh Phegley, Tyler Greene, and who was pitching guys like Hector Santiago, Ramón Troncoso, Brian Omogrosso, David Purcey, etc. It was bad. It will get better, sooner rather than later. The Sox will not lose 90+ games three years in a row on purpose or on accident.

Again, the Cubs are not a good measuring stick. Do you judge Bears seasons vs how the Browns did?


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:13 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Seriously, who loses a trade to Kevin Towers? I don't even think 12 year olds playing fantasy could be had by that dope. Embarrassing.
You seem pretty upset by Kevin Towers.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
What a genius move to build one of the major's worst bullpens. It's almost as if Hahn wants to tank the season by employing Robin and enabling shitty managing by giving him a bigger pile of shit bullpen.
The bullpen has been really bad, but two of the projected best arms in that pen (Nate Jones, Matt Lindstrom) have been gone for some time now.

Bullpens are almost a total crapshoot from year to year.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:44 am 
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sox = 9 blown saves. Addison Reed = 2

7 games. That's a lot of WAR. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:48 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
sox = 9 blown saves. Addison Reed = 2

7 games. That's a lot of WAR. :lol:


Saves don't have anything to do with WAR. And some of those blown saves occurred because of bad luck and are not included in FIP. Beyond the pitcher's control.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:50 am 
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Its not just the closer who has blown saves though. Webb lost the game Friday by not throwing strikes. 3rd game of the season Sox score like 9 runs and lost to the Twins because the pen gave up 5 or 6 runs late, among other games. Its been the entire bullpen.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:51 am 
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June 23, 2013: 31-42 .424
June 23, 2014: 35-42 .454

Ya know what? This year is probably the best reloads (shhhh not a rebuild) I've ever seen in all my years of bestball. On track for ONLY 88 losses! This was after the easy portion of the schedule but let's disregard that fact. Go Rick Hahn!


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:52 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
sox = 9 blown saves. Addison Reed = 2

7 games. That's a lot of WAR. :lol:

Closers almost never last longer than a couple seasons. Im of the opinion that if you can get anything for a guy (unless its like Rivera or Chapman) you do it


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:57 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Closers almost never last longer than a couple seasons.


i don't buy this theory. maybe bellisario types. reed was a #1 pick as a closer. dumb idea yes, but he'll have a 10 year career. dan plesac was drafted as a closer.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:00 am 
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Reed was a 3rd round pick. He's also served up 8 home runs in 31.1 innings this season.


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:02 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Closers almost never last longer than a couple seasons.


i don't buy this theory. maybe bellisario types. reed was a #1 pick as a closer. dumb idea yes, but he'll have a 10 year career. dan plesac was drafted as a closer.


If Reed was with your team ten years, you'd hate him and be here complaining about him. Plesac looks great when you see his numbers on paper, but when he was actually playing, I'm sure he had fans screaming at him through the TV quite a bit. I can't stand Matt Thornton, but by the numbers, he's probably the best lefty specialist the Sox ever had.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:03 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Saves don't have anything to do with WAR. And some of those blown saves occurred because of bad luck and are not included in FIP. Beyond the pitcher's control.

Is anyone else surprised that JORR posted this?

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:04 am 
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Keyser Soze wrote:
Reed was a 3rd round pick. .


my bad. not sure why I thought that. royce ring flashbacks maybe.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:08 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Closers almost never last longer than a couple seasons.


i don't buy this theory. maybe bellisario types. reed was a #1 pick as a closer. dumb idea yes, but he'll have a 10 year career. dan plesac was drafted as a closer.

How many closers in MLB have been doing it well for 5+years?

Papelbon
Nathan
Soriano


That's about it


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:10 am 
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that's not the way to think about it. look at Reed's age and performance and compare to similar players in history. I don't know the answer to this, but neither do you.

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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:11 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
that's not the way to think about it. look at Reed's age and performance and compare to similar players in history. I don't know the answer to this, but neither do you.

I had Reed on a fantasy team this year. He's been frustrating.


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 Post subject: Re: Hahn's Vision
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:13 am 
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I don't love the guy by any stretch but to flush one of your best assets down the toilet? Not good.

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