The Cubs valued it so much they let it break up and BB go to another team!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

While obviously Jerry cares a lot about making money, he also seems to indulge some peccadilloes when it comes to former jocks. This is the guy who claimed that Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen were like sons to him now, remember. I don't know to what extent play-by-play men generate revenue. I'm guessing it can't be much if Jerry feels more comfortable using those job positions to surround himself with more ex-ballplayers, which is historically what he's done with that job (Hawk, Drysdale, Farmer, DJ, Stone, Singleton, Paciorek, Early Wynn, Mike Huff; I think everyone except maybe Singleton has been made to do pxp under Reinsdorf). You could add Kenny Williams as another ex-ballplayer working out of his element, though I'll admit that ex-players as GMs was fashionable around baseball until only very recently.

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Except Ozzie is gone, and Kenny was promoted to be replaced, and both those guys gave Jerry his best sports moment ever.

I think it has more to do with the fact that Hawk is the voice of White Sox baseball to a whole generation of fans like me. I probably view him the same way Cubs fans my age or younger view Harry Caray. I do think it is time for his role to be lessened. I'd be fine if he ended up doing about 40 games next year instead or however you'd work it out. I can promise you that if they fired Hawk tomorrow that they aren't filling that stadium.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No, of course not. Let's be honest: objectively speaking, Hawk Harrelson is terrible at his job. But he's not keeping people away, because I've seen what happens when Cubs fans try to rag Sox fans about Hawk. (Though maybe it's just like hockey, where we can, should, and must criticize the NHL from within our fandom but freak the fuck out when the Krazy Ivans of the world want to add their "thoughts.") You could argue that being terrible at broadcasting diminishes the television audience which in turns diminishes interest in the team which in turn diminishes ticket sales, but that's kind of a reach.

Ultimately, I think Hawk's bad broadcasting is more a symptom than a cause: that is to say that the White Sox under Reinsdorf have always been vaguely (or not-so-vaguely) contemptuous of their customers, kind of a "we'll do what we're gonna do, take it or leave it" attitude that manifests itself in everything from peculiar rainout policies to overly officious ushers to employing terrible broadcasters for life because they played in the bigs once. The Cubs under McDonough really wanted you to come to Wrigley. The White Sox under Reinsdorf/Einhorn management have seemed to not entirely mind if you came to Comiskey.

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I think Hawk was great, was then just good, and now he's lost a lot of what made me like him.

Do you think Hawk was always bad, or is it a more recent opinion?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think it's a rare broadcaster that gets fans out to the park. Harry was that guy. Bob Brenly and Vin Scully aren't. Hawk isn't either. So what? It's not like there are Harry Carays growing on trees. That's why dopes are still doing bad impersonations of him ten years after he's dead.

Anyway, I think we've buried the lede here. li'l danny taking someone to task for driving people away by being cranky and negative? Who ya crappin'?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I wasn't watching when he was working with Paciorek, and I'm definitely too young for the years that he was a sidekick to Drysdale, but when I'd drop in on Sox games on channel 9 around 2002-2004, I knew even then that there was something kind of weird, stilted, bizarro-world about watching Sox games. I won't claim to have watched a great deal of Sox games on TV (I probably catch more of their games on radio due to laziness), but in my assessment, Hawk is just as crappy now as he's been for at least ten years.

What's interesting is that Hawk being bad seems to be a more recent opinion of Dan Bernstein.

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That's just absolutely false. His job is to announce the game to a largely White Sox fan audience and he does so perfectly.


Hawk is good for attendance, if he has any affect at all.

I basically ignored baseball from 1995 to 2005 so you and me are from different eras.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It's definitely a recent opinion. I think it began Hawk's refusal to accept some of the more modern statistics that bernstein loves to spout and has escalated from there with sniping from both sides. Now suddenly, bernstein is in pain just listening to Hawk. Talk about over the top reactions! But danny can't turn down the sound because he needs to hear Steve Stone, the best in the synagogue, er, business.

As ignorant as someone like Hawk or Joe Morgan can be with regard to what is obvious to most of us from looking at numbers, it's even more ignorant to think that a guy who played many major league seasons can't provide some insight that a JV soccer player lacks.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

It also has to do with Hawk calling them out on air. Though, they claim it isn't personal.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Hawk is embarrassing. I can't listen. The loud mouth drunken fool at the dinner party, the rest of the table is cringing and giving sideways glances.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I think it's more embarrassing to wear one's ignorance like a badge by mocking someone for talking about "people that almost no one has heard of". The fact that bernstein doesn't know who Zoilo Versalles and Dick Radatz are should be embarrassing to bernstein, not Hawk.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Is there a better argument against Bernstein's supposed intelligence than that?


All the great minds in history made sure to never consider anything that wasnt already being discussed.

bernstein = bad does not mean hawk = good

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

True, but this thread was inspired by the idiotic words of bernstein during yesterday's show.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

2002-2010 is my window. The Plan basically did me in as a baseball fan.

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Good for you! You were there for the Golden Age.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Bernstein was talking about his advanced stats theories again yesterday. He stated that TheoandJed were hired to find "market inefficiencies." What market inefficiencies is he referring to? Sabremetrics has been accepted by every organization (20 years ago) and I'm sure they all have a huge team of nerds and proprietary software to help them. There are no more market inefficiencies. You know what Theo and Jed's job is? It's to build a good team without any gimmicks. I personally think they will do just that, but it won't be through some miraculous new stat that Theo discovers while playing with beakers in his secret lab. Bernstein lives in a fantasy world.

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Bernsie is still going off of the inefficiencies he thought they had in Boston. But oops the CBA and draft/slot rules changed a year into the plan. Bernsie just hasn't changed the narrative and thinks the Latin and Asian players are the new inefficiency.

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Elections have consequences.

I think it's every GM's job to find market inefficiencies. Its not new though. That's been the job of every GM ever


BeerStain just makes it seem new and brilliant

Right... I guess my point is that he uses the term "market inefficiencies" to say they need to find players that you can sign for less than they're worth. That's what every GM has tried to do since the beginning of time. Market inefficiencies is his way of saying they need to do their job, basically.

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Hendry found Market inefficiencies in Pittsburgh and Florida

Soriano found a market inefficiency in Jim Hendry.

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ZING!!

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

In the famous words (well, word) of Scorehead, BIBGO! Gaming the broken draft system, drawing walks, and putting everyone on steroids isn't going to cut it in 2014 like it did in 2004. I really wonder how much of Boston's success has come from Larry Lucchino and not Theo the Great.

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I was thinking about he 300million dollar off season as I typed that

As I posted above, people brought portable radios (not with headphones) to Dodger games to make sure that Vin was heard in the stands. Los Angelenos love their Dodgers, but Vin is/was recognized as being the face of that team.

When "B&B, the board game" is finalized, Hawk talk will be a part of it and you'll move your piece back 3 spaces and get to pull a WYC card.

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DRINK BƎTTƎR. @theRIPH

I love Vin Scully. I fantasize about him every night while I stare at my radio and listen to Farmio.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Scully was a fine broadcaster. So was Ernie Harwell. But I don't think they were the type of promoters for live attendance that bigfan is talking about. Harry was pretty much one of a kind. He made the ballpark seem like the place to be. Scully tells you what's happening in the game, but I don't think anyone listening to him feels they're missing something by not being there.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don