I beg your pardon?

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Take out the silly Braves dynasty expectation and Id be mostly in agreement with your first paragraph.

People care because REALLY. SMART. PEOPLE. are ranking the systems now. THEY'RE USING MATH!!!

Hey,wait..Didn't I start this thread about 19 different times already?

The one thing I would say to dennisdman is under Hendry,I seem to remember the Cubs
having success every year at the minor league level. I don't know where you look it up
for that stat,but it seemed like every season they would have a few teams finishing 1st
in their leagues.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

It was a joke, but the Braves dynasty stuff will be bumped by jealous Sox fans like me.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I do think the Cubs could have chased a wildcard spot this year with some real OF's, but they chose to have seaosn long tryouts.

I dont exepct this same crap next year.

At best, Junior Lake is my 4th OF of this group. or Even Ruggiano, is my 5th....

Melky- No reason a 3-4 year deal cant be on the table.

Also, a number of good OF's will be looking for 1 and 2 year deals. Guys who are 33...like Nelson Cruz,,,and if you arent going to bring up kids, then make sure it is no longer Open tryouts!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Which playoff sweep are you referencing here?

I must have missed the parade.

In a vacuum, I'll take the on field results of 03-08 over 09-14 any day.

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If things like the Milton Bradley signing and overpaying Soriano by a wide margin are your idea of a better plan, then you should cheer for the Dodgers. It is clear what Theo & Co are trying to do. They first had to clean-up the Tribune mess from a crumbling stadium to a bloated payroll and empty farm system. I commend them for what they have accomplished so far. I see the light at the end of the tunnel. Sorry for those that don't.

I wish they were winning like those Hendry teams, but I want something built to last. And lest anyone forgets, Hendry didn't bring us a World Series victory.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

The Cubs are assuming a historic hit rate on these prospects to exit the tunnel. Do you think Ricketts is willing to open the wallet when one busts and there is a hole? Or will we have to wait 5 years for a prospect to develop and plug in?

Yeah, really. We talk about how the Blackhawks admirably built from within, and they sure did, but man, did they have a lot of whiffs in the draft. Barker and Skille are the big two, and Kyle Beach the biggest of all, but then in the lower rounds you had tons of guys who didn't come close to panning out, because that's what prospects do. Fortunately, Dale Tallon got to steppin' and started trading and signing for quality players, something the Cubs haven't been in any hurry to do and don't seem to be in any hurry to do because they don't have any money and will continue to not have any money as they fail to sign away their TV rights and broker time on channel 32.2.

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I assume you root for the Cubs as an accident of birth rather than because of the silly thought that any "Cubs Way" might be superior to whatever the Dodgers do.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Yes, my entire family grew up Cubs fans, and while it is a sad existence, I am infinitely loyal to my teams. We've have seen numerous franchises try to spend their way to perpetual success. The Mets are the best example of whiffing on it. The Yankees and Red Sox have been the best at it. The Dodgers and Blue Jays look silly so far but may yet come up with victories. I found it ironic that the free spending Red Sox actually dumped their high priced talent to the Dodgers, and then go onto win the World Series.

The Cubs can have the best of both worlds. First build a strong nucleus of young talent. They are doing that. Unlike the Twins or A's, they will have the dollars to keep that talent. As examples, they already made the smart moves to lock-up Rizzo and Castro through their early free agent years. They'll do the same with Bryant and the others. Then you fill a few needs with high priced free agents. This is in contrast to trying to buy an entire team like Hendry did. You tend to overpay, and you also end up with a lot of older guys. You have no assets to trade. The Cubs have plenty of money, assets, and young talent.

I understand why the win now strategy is appealing. I just prefer the Plan, and I think it will work in the long run. It doesn't happen overnight.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

This assumes they pan out! And how can we ever know if they deserve a contract if fucking cheapwad Ricketts keeps them in AAA b/c God forbid they hit free agency in 2021 instead of 2022.


How can the Cubs have money if Ricketts is crying poor? His big TV deal is to put the Cubs on public access channel!


We're so fucked.

Kirkwood, why do you get so angry when Sox fans point out exactly the same stuff you're saying now? Just because they're Sox fans?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

There has been absolutely nothing to indicate this will happen

And you're wrong about the Hendry years. Look into it a little more. The Cubs had a great minor league system in the early 2000s and turned three of them into Aramis Ramirez, Kenny Lofton, and Derrek Lee. I hope Theo is that good.

Ill answer that as if it were addressed at me

A Sox fan would start that post by saying "You guys all think every prospect is going to the hall of fame and that Theo walks on water, well guess what buddy....Im smart, because Im a Sox fan, and here's the real deal....."

Lofton was a very short term fix. The ARam and DLee trades were awesome. They got those guys because little sisters of the poor couldn't sign them to long term deals. I believe Hee Sop Choi was in the DLee trade. Not exactly stellar talent.

I have no recollection of a great minor league system in the early 2000's. Pie, Murton, Patterson, and a bunch of 3rd basemen I can hardly recall??

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Just to get back to the thread title, the major flaws are:

1) They changed the rules (he can't control that)

2) And Ricketts finances got screwed up (he can't control that)


So with those two seriously obvious pieces of information, we can safely assume the plan is no longer the plan. The plan has changed and adapted mightily from day 1. It's a whole new plan, that is being constrained by Ricketts not being able to spend money.

Well the past 3 months have really soured on me. I always thought Ricketts was a clueless spaz. But Crane Kenney got extended. The stadium deal still isn't fucking done. Baez and Almora kind of suck. Edward is injured. Management has been dangling the TV deal as a carrot for fans to spend money. Aaaaaaaand their big TV reveal is a public access channel.

Been a pretty shitty 2014 for a Cubs fan.

Most prospects will not achieve the hype. That is why you need so many assets, so that just a few pan out. They have an amazing collection of assets. It will get bigger when Shark and Hammel are traded. By the end of next year's draft, the Cubs should have the #1 farm system. I think they are 2nd-4th depending on who is rating them. It guarantees nothing, but it is better than being 30th.

Bryant's 27 home runs are looking pretty solid right now.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

PLAN!

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

I find it ironic that the Red Sox dumped Theo for signing all that high priced talent and then went on to win a world series after he left.

Each organization that lost a current member of the Cubs front office has been better for the departure. I bet Ameritrade is up like 200% since Tom Ricketts left.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

You're actually right. I think "the plan" no longer exists. It's probably safe to stop using it. Now they are just going about their business like any other GM/front office would.

The thing is though #1 was highly foreseeable and was instituted almost immediately upon him taking the job. We have to assume Theo knew. I am of the belief that he also knew of #2 and took the job knowing he would be the high paid flak for Ricketts for the first five years.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

They're playing the new slot game perfectly. They signed a bunch of foreign talent before the rules changed, and now they are drafting high for below slot money and using it on guys in later rounds that require above slot money.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

D Lee wasnt stellar? He used the minor league system to acquire guys who would go on to be multiple time all stars

It wasnt JUST because the Pirates and Marlins were poor. Any team could have traded with them. Hendry had the assets to make it happen and he did.

Bobby Hill became Aramis Ramirez
Hee Seop Choi became D Lee

Thats about 6 all star appearances in 5 years after starting with two "prospects"
Then there is Zambrano and Prior. That's 4 more all star appearances
Oh and Patterson who contributed and made the All star team in 03


So that's 5 guys who were all acquired between 97-00 and they turned it into a combined 11 all star appearances and got them closer to the World Series than theyve been in decades


So tell me again how bad the system was

Stop this. You are just trying to put up an anti troll blocker.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

In regards to #2, I wish I could remember exactly what he said, but when he was on the Score a week or so ago, be basically admitted he didn't know... but that they have known for awhile now.

Huh? You're saying their system was stellar by using Bobby Hill and Choi as examples? Of course D Lee and A Ram were awesome. I said those were great trades. You're the one that said Hendry had a good farm system in the early 2000's. I am trying to figure out one position player that was good from that era. Not guys from other teams, as I know we acquired some great players.

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Hawaii (fuck) You