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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:56 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Then you fill a few needs with high priced free agents.

There has been absolutely nothing to indicate this will happen

And you're wrong about the Hendry years. Look into it a little more. The Cubs had a great minor league system in the early 2000s and turned three of them into Aramis Ramirez, Kenny Lofton, and Derrek Lee. I hope Theo is that good.


Who from the Cubs system was great? We had some really solid pitchers. Nothing in the field.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:58 am 
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denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
D Lee wasnt stellar? He used the minor league system to acquire guys who would go on to be multiple time all stars

It wasnt JUST because the Pirates and Marlins were poor. Any team could have traded with them. Hendry had the assets to make it happen and he did.

Bobby Hill became Aramis Ramirez
Hee Seop Choi became D Lee

Thats about 6 all star appearances in 5 years after starting with two "prospects"
Then there is Zambrano and Prior. That's 4 more all star appearances
Oh and Patterson who contributed and made the All star team in 03


So that's 5 guys who were all acquired between 97-00 and they turned it into a combined 11 all star appearances and got them closer to the World Series than theyve been in decades


So tell me again how bad the system was


Huh? You're saying their system was stellar by using Bobby Hill and Choi as examples? Of course D Lee and A Ram were awesome. I said those were great trades. You're the one that said Hendry had a good farm system in the early 2000's. I am trying to figure out one position player that was good from that era. Not guys from other teams, as I know we acquired some great players.

Yes, because Hill and Choi became Lee and Ramirez. Minor leaguers are valued based on rankings. Those guys were thought of high enough at the time to be traded for two great players. That is part of what minor league systems can do for you.

Hendry also drafted Josh Donaldson (used to acquire Rich Harden who contributed to a division title), who might win the MVP this year and Baez who is probably gonna be better than most of Theo's guys.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:01 am 
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denisdman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
denisdman wrote:
Then you fill a few needs with high priced free agents.

There has been absolutely nothing to indicate this will happen

And you're wrong about the Hendry years. Look into it a little more. The Cubs had a great minor league system in the early 2000s and turned three of them into Aramis Ramirez, Kenny Lofton, and Derrek Lee. I hope Theo is that good.


Who from the Cubs system was great? We had some really solid pitchers. Nothing in the field.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/2007/26983.html

The Cubs usually had between 6-8 of the top 100 prosects in those years. It doesnt matter if they pan out if you trade them for known assets


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:02 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
How can the Cubs have money if Ricketts is crying poor? His big TV deal is to put the Cubs on public access channel!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:03 am 
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I get the guys from day 1 that wanted to spend 200 mil and have a shot every year at 86 wins and a wild card.
I think that's really dumb but I get it.

I get the Sox fans that have now changed the "caring about the Cubs more than their team" from a stereotype to an absolute fact.

I really don't get the Cubs fans that NOW....NOW....NOW have short attention span issues?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:06 am 
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Jenny, Jenny, you're my.....guy, uh gal, whatever.

#86wins4$200M

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:13 am 
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if the Cubs are still 5 years away, the Sox must be 10-15 years away.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:16 am 
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At least you didn't get the Tampa Bay GM.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:29 am 
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8675309 wrote:

I really don't get the Cubs fans that NOW....NOW....NOW have short attention span issues?


What does this mean?

How many years of utter shit are we supposed to sit through (keeping in mind it's been 105 years since the last title?)


Attention span is not the issue. Ricketts is a bumbling fuck who cant get things done. That's most of the problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:34 am 
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8675309 wrote:
I really don't get the Cubs fans that NOW....NOW....NOW have short attention span issues?
[/quote]
No, the honeymoon period is over. The goodwill is gone. The Cubs have chirped to anyone who'd listen TV deal and Wrigley renovation = we'll start competing/spending. Well, um, yea.....


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:48 am 
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denisdman wrote:
You're the one that said Hendry had a good farm system in the early 2000's. I am trying to figure out one position player that was good from that era.
One that was developed from Cubs stock? If not, I would say that Sammy Sosa qualifies as a pretty good position player in the early 00's.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:53 am 
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8675309 wrote:
I get the guys from day 1 that wanted to spend 200 mil and have a shot every year at 86 wins and a wild card. I think that's really dumb but I get it.


I'd like RPB to take note here, because I know he seems to think that Sox fans just make up shit about the unrealistic viewpoints of many Cub fans.

The Cubs have won 86 games 9 times in the last 75 years. If they had done it more often, they likely wouldn't be in the midst of a 100+ year World Series drought. This idea that some guru- whether it be Epstein, Hoyer, or someone else- is going to come in with some "Plan" that has a team averaging 95 wins a season is just crazy. No team does that. Not even the Yankees. Why don't you try to start by winning 86 games before putting it down as "inglorious".

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:03 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
8675309 wrote:

I really don't get the Cubs fans that NOW....NOW....NOW have short attention span issues?


What does this mean?

How many years of utter shit are we supposed to sit through (keeping in mind it's been 105 years since the last title?)


Attention span is not the issue. Ricketts is a bumbling fuck who cant get things done. That's most of the problem.


I think most / many educated baseball people said this organization is a DISASTER it will take at least 5 seasons until they're good again.
So we're basically 50% of the way to that point.
This doesn't mean everything is the same amount of horrible for 5 seasons and then 2017 it's World Series or fire everybody.
I think the end of last season with Rizzo and Castro struggling was rock bottom.
I think this year is still about gettng more assets but starting to filter in youth. Alcantara should be up shortly and then Darwin can go away.
By this time next year Baez and Bryant should also be up.....that's a great young offense with more to come.
I think next year will be very fun and they'll settle in around 80 wins.
That still gives them 1 more year of this 5 year plan most Cubs fans under 70 signed up for.

I have no issue with somebody not liking the plan at the start but why jump ship now?
It's like being 6 months into a 12 month fitness plan and giving when you've lost half your weight and are starting to get a lot of compliments.
Be like Rongey and go for it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:06 am 
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Who's going to pitch the Cubs to 80 wins?
Baez is hitting under .250.
Seems like every Cubs prospect has strikeout issues.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:07 am 
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Right now the Cubs have 3.5 Major League hitters in their lineup: Castro,Rizzo,Valbuena & Castillo.
Their best hitting OF (Lake) has an OBP of .270 last time I looked. Barney & Olt & the starting OF are absolutely terrible! It's a miracle this team has been competitive as it has been. It's all OK though because Theo will flip more quality starting pitching for guys that will be up around 2018 and beyond. It's a shell game that's was bought in to by naive sports writers & talk show hosts and young Cub fans who have all the time in the world to witness years of pure shit. I DON'T!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:07 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Who's going to pitch the Cubs to 80 wins?


Anyone. Just make sure they have a lot of run support.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:07 am 
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F'ing Kenny Powers.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:10 am 
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bryant plus two free agent hitters and the Cubs are a legit contender.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:10 am 
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8675309 wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
8675309 wrote:

I really don't get the Cubs fans that NOW....NOW....NOW have short attention span issues?


What does this mean?

How many years of utter shit are we supposed to sit through (keeping in mind it's been 105 years since the last title?)


Attention span is not the issue. Ricketts is a bumbling fuck who cant get things done. That's most of the problem.


I think most / many educated baseball people said this organization is a DISASTER it will take at least 5 seasons until they're good again.
So we're basically 50% of the way to that point.
This doesn't mean everything is the same amount of horrible for 5 seasons and then 2017 it's World Series or fire everybody.
I think the end of last season with Rizzo and Castro struggling was rock bottom.
I think this year is still about gettng more assets but starting to filter in youth. Alcantara should be up shortly and then Darwin can go away.
By this time next year Baez and Bryant should also be up.....that's a great young offense with more to come.
I think next year will be very fun and they'll settle in around 80 wins.
That still gives them 1 more year of this 5 year plan most Cubs fans under 70 signed up for.

I have no issue with somebody not liking the plan at the start but why jump ship now?
It's like being 6 months into a 12 month fitness plan and giving when you've lost half your weight and are starting to get a lot of compliments.
Be like Rongey and go for it.
\

Im not jumping ship. Ive been on this fucking disaster for 27 years, Im not gonna jump now or ever but this is the season where I think it's starting to become unacceptable. 5 years to overhaul the minors is fine prediction. That doesnt mean you have to tank 5 years. We all know the arguments. I just thought 2 years of not trying was enough.

They could compete with even modest additions and no one would be blocked.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:11 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
bryant plus two free agent hitters and the Cubs are a legit contender.

No that would make them average. That and two starting pitchers might be legit


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:12 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
That and two starting pitchers might be legit


they already have 4 quality starters. how many do you want? six?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:13 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
That and two starting pitchers might be legit


they already have 4 quality starters. how many do you want? six?

I consider Samardzija and Hammel gone already


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:13 am 
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What RPB is saying makes perfect sense. Same thing I said 3 years ago! So what's the difference in signing some FA hitters 3 years ago because they sure were not blocking anybody then either!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:14 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
That and two starting pitchers might be legit


they already have 4 quality starters. how many do you want? six?


Yeah, they have a bunch of guys with decent ERA, but you know it's a whole different thing pitching on a contender when the games matter. There are no expectations now.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:14 am 
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jimmypasta wrote:
What RPB is saying makes perfect sense. Same thing I said 3 years ago! So what's the difference in signing some FA hitters 3 years ago because they sure were not blocking anybody then either!


Ricketts didn't want to spend the money. Or couldn't.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:15 am 
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jimmypasta wrote:
What RPB is saying makes perfect sense. Same thing I said 3 years ago! So what's the difference in signing some FA hitters 3 years ago because they sure were not blocking anybody then either!

I dont think Ive ever told anyone this or posted it on this board but I thought 2 years was reasonable and with the big money contracts they had, they didnt have a lot of flexibility.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:17 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
I consider Samardzija and Hammel gone already


i'm just sayin' if they wanted to be contenders they could be.

also, i'd rather have guys who have actually performed well in the majors (even for a non-contender) rather than more pipe-dream prospects.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:17 am 
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Hatchetman wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
I consider Samardzija and Hammel gone already


i'm just sayin' if they wanted to be contenders they could be.

also, i'd rather have guys who have actually performed well in the majors (even for a non-contender) rather than more pipe-dream prospects.

I gotcha


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:20 am 
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Totally get the frustration and most of my Cub fan friends have hit the same wall but....
the same friends will then tweet me about how great Kris Bryant is.
Then my recorded speech plays on how you're not getting Bryant at #2 by winning 80 games.

I think the Washington Nationals are a good example of the Cubs future floor.
Always seems like they should be good but injuries and acouple bad free agent signings have held them back.
I wouldn't strive to be where they're at but you could do much worse.

The ceiling is obviously the Red Sox and their 3 recent World Series wins, still stacked farm and lots of money to spend.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:25 am 
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8675309 wrote:
lots of money to spend.

Weirdest lie perpetuated by cubs fanbase. Scrooge McRicketts is pocketing all the dough.


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