Buddy you don't know what you're missing.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Your world would be round. They knew the world was round when Columbus set sail. They've known it ever since the ancient Greeks.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

There is always this year.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

+1,000

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Yes they did.

Archimedes? Yeah, I think that might have been the guy.

Anyway, I would be willing to agree that the world climate has changed if the other side would be willing to admit that said change has yet to be proven that man has caused it. Possible natural factors completely eliminated? Solar output? Standard precession of Earth's tilt? Many things to be considered.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

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https://www.backroadspubandgrill.com

We don't know definitively what causes it, or what can slow it, or reverse it, but I think we have a pretty good idea. We do know the average surface temperature of the earth is rising. It's called math.

50 < 51 < 52 etc.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Anyway, I would be willing to agree that the world climate has changed if the other side would be willing to admit that said change has yet to be proven that man has caused it. Possible natural factors completely eliminated? Solar output? Standard precession of Earth's tilt? Many things to be considered.[/quote]
This

Even if man had no effect on climate change wouldn't it still be in our best interest as a species to develop and popularize alternative fuel sources?

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OK. This is progress. If we're not ready to say definitively that Mankind is causing Global Warming (I know I just teed up a M.ick Foley joke... fuck), then let's not just start writing a bunch of off laws that we're not sure will solve the problem, or even slow the problem, but would be well known to harm the economy and cause a lot of problems.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

I think that is an alarmist reaction from the other side.

The Really. Smart. People. that have profited greatly from the extraction of fossil fuels, surely can figure out a way to profit from cleaner energy.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Climate change is undiscovered country for new forms of financial engineering.

Oh, the money to be made.

Sure. Would it also be in the best interest of the species to ensure that we don't collapse our economy toward that goal? Right now, with what we have, sustainable energy is not sustainable economically. I would certainly support that we continue to R&D alternative fuels. But we're not ready to cut the throat of our coal and nuclear energy production.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Of course, it would. There is only so much oil in the ground. "Drill baby drill" is only a feasible option to nudniks like Sarah Palin.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

True, oil and coal made some folks a lot of money, and I agree that we can find profit in cleaner energy, but I would disagree that cleaner energy, as it is possible today, can meet the energy needs of the world. That's the rub.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Nuclear is probably the best we have now, provided the reactors aren't built on fault lines, like in Japan.

_________________
Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

Truth.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Yeah, Nukes is great and very safe. I don't think the Japan thing was a fault line though, I think it was tsunami damage.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Which was triggered by a major earthquake.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

It was also an aging reactor that had outdated and obsolete saftey systems.

But it wasn't built on a fault line. Anyway, I agree. Nuclear plants on fault lines should be avoided.
I do however, like the idea of them being built on bomb test ranges.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

As long as I get to keep my gasoline and diesel cars...okay.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Kill two birds with one stone.

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way

You guys are so funny. So I read today that antarctic ice is bigger than ever before and it has been a trend for 16 years. This is due to sea water flows and so on. I won't bother linking. Then from same gatherer of links has Arctic ice shrinks but that is clear evidence. Two weeks ago the NOSA or NASA or whatever it is had to admit or was caught cheating/zero filling data.

The science is not decided. Never has been never will be. Science does not make final conclusions. The most visible area of this is astronomy. They are always evaluating.

This is a political thing now and money, people and your personal views are involved. It will never be decided in our lifetimes like many other things.

So... I will go with fine it is a good idea keep things clean and reduce emissions or whatever but I am not gonna sit there and be happy as Al Gore enriches himself.

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Elections have consequences.

I agree with you, but something doesn't feel right about telling countries (or entire continents) that because of the environmental impact, they can't use--or need to limit-- fossil fuels. It's like saying we had our industrial revolution, but you can't have yours.

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It is possible to believe that global climate change exists without necessarily thinking that there needs to be legislation for it. I think sometimes people are in denial about climate change because they don't want regulation. That is flawed logic. We can agree on the fact that it exists and disagree on whether fossil fuels should be legislated.

I have mixed feelings about legislation. The only way fossil fuels will ever truly be replaced is through economics. The cost of oil has to be so high that alternative means are less expensive or more efficient. Unfortunately, right now, they aren't even close. Also, the concept of perpetual economic growth is predicated on the use of fossil fuels. If you look at a chart of worldwide economic growth before and after the advent of the use of fossil fuels, it is extreme. We have, for the most part, had perpetual economic growth since we started using fossil fuels, but that wasn't necessarily true before fossil fuels. We will have to invent or discover our way out of the reliance on fossil fuels.

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That's truly the reason that there is so much division.

Folks don't understand what science really is.

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Well then someone should award Russia a medal for scrubbing 50M last century.

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This person is an actual lawmaker.



Republican Calls Climate Change A Hoax Because Earth And Mars Have 'Exactly' Same Temperature

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/0 ... 68058.html

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Good people drink good beer - Hunter S. Thompson

<º)))><

Waiting for the time when I can finally say
That this has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way