I read the post. I understand what you're saying. You don't understand that it's not logically consistent.

You've said that winning in '05 doesn't do anything for any future or past teams. But you're using the lack of success in future teams to indicate that the '05 team was somehow less than it was(call it good, serviceable, lucky, fluky, whatever). So either teams stand on their own merits of a particular season or it really is a total package.

the total tenure of Kenny Williams has been more successful than any other baseball GM in the city for the past combined 150+ years, yet if Theo duplicates his success it will be considered a failure. I do understand what you're saying when you say that but it doesn't make it any less baffling.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Alright - now I see where we're at.

You're not understanding where I'm coming from because you think all these things are connected, or you think I'm connecting them.

The 2005 World Series was awesome. Any World Series victory is awesome.

But then we've had threads where the White Sox over a period were being judged, and when White Sox fans were asked why they were so happy...2005 was brought up. 2005 makes the whole decade "great?" "Good?" No. 2005 makes 2005 great. 2005 doesn't make 2009 great, or the period from 2001-2014. It makes it "okay." Which is better than the Cubs from 2001-2014, but not as good as the Cardinals, let's say.

Then we had a different thread (or same thread on a different day) where we were judging Kenny Williams. Is Kenny William as a GM 'very skilled' because of one World Series over the course of how long of a tenture? Or should he actually be judged more harshly because as a GM he could not maintain a winning organization for a length of time greater than one year?

The 2005 White Sox were great. 99 Wins and 1 loss in the playoffs? Great.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

One World Series victory makes this century great.

I've already gone through one century without seeing it. Let's not get greedy.

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You know me like that.

As a fan base, you have to get greedy or demanding. The last thing I want is a complacent organization.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I dont think it would do any good to try to judge the "skill level" of any GM, especially one who is no longer active. It's a results oriented business. Of course teams like the Red Sox and Cardinals enjoyed more success than the Sox during Williams tenure. But just winning that one world series still puts him above almost any non World Series winning GM. It's the same reason why any criticism of Theo's Boston tenure ultimately rings a little hollow. Whether it was by draft loopholes, market inefficiencies, high paid FA, or whatever, he won two world series. It's impossible to label it anything other than an enormous success. His Cubs tenure should obviously be labeled an incomplete but he has put out last place teams three years out of three so far so he has his work cut out for him.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

How does the 2005 season compare to most other titles that were won? Do you think the White Sox title would be in the bottom 20% of skillful jobs by the GM, or the top 20% of skillful jobs by the GM, or just in the middle?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Slotting Price in the rotation in 2016 would be sweet. The money should be there as it's be been banked for the past 3 years.

This offseason I would target Justin Masterson. He's having a real shitty year as he's lost some mph off his fastball. In the spring he proposed the following:

He's a sinkerball pitcher who is a quiet leader type in the clubhouse. The cat is very religous. If he adjusts his ask enough I'd be very interested in a 3-year deal.

I've heard the Masterson rumors as well. I think that is who they pick up. He is a Theo draft pick too.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

We've already had this argument. I really dont want to re write it.

Some championship teams have more of an "everything coming together" season than others. The White Sox had a lot of things come together.

It was a real good job by kenny that involved several calculated gambles working out

It should be a pretty simple question to answer. Your non-answer leads me to believe that you think that the job by Kenny was one of the least skillful performances for a World Series GM. Otherwise, you'd say that it was pretty much average.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

As usual you want things to be black and white but they arent.


He did a very good job that year.

No, I'm doing the opposite of black and white. I'm asking for a percentage with many different available answers.

You can't just say "black and white" as an answer to everything you don't want to admit. Your non-answer is an answer. It truly is an easy question.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No, you're doing black and white like you always do. You try to break everything down to a Yes No answer as if all things are always equal, but they're not.

There are gray areas. Kenny Williams didnt have Steinbrenner money to work with. He also didnt have Billy Beane's limitations. Its hard to compare each title.

But you act as if its easy. As if I have an opinion ready on every GM that ever won a WS and a list with Kenny ranked.

He did a good job. I have no idea where it ranks all time, that would take a crazy amount of research. It is the opposite of an easy question.

The paragraph stated that to you, one WS title would be failure. The Cubs haven't won a title since 1908, and haven't played in a WS game since 1945. And you want Theo to come in and start winning them left and right? Asinine. Idiotic. Moronic. Sure all teams fans want them to win all the time. Cubs fans especially should start with ONE and then see what happens.

Saying shit like that you come off an arrogant little shit. If you aren't trolling (which is exactly what Juiced does) it can only be that.

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I'm not even sure that's true. The 2006 Cardinals might be the worst World Series winner ever. They certainly weren't as good as the 2006 White Sox who embarrassed them on national television and scored something like 50 runs against them in a three game series that year. I'd have to say 2006 is advantage Kenny in spite of the fluky outcome that ended the season.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

You seem to be selectively knowledgeable on the topic. I asked if Kenny did an above average, average, or below average job compared to other championship GMs. You'd think a guy who has mocked my baseball knowledge in the past wouldn't struggle so much with a question like that. If you can't answer that question, I think I have to start questioning whether you are capable of even analyzing the job Kenny did since you are struggling with the ability to give a loose approximation of where it stands among other recent winning GMs. This also seriously calls into question your ability to judge Theo's time in Boston.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Goddamn , Bryan is getting the textbook definition of BRicked.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Compared to other GMs who won recent titles, Kenny did an average job putting the team together.

YES OR NO?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Selectively knowledgable? How bout not gonna bullshit my way thru something I couldnt possibly be sure of.

So Ive exposed your ridiculous question and you decide to troll it up

Just to prove how ridiculous it is, Ill ask you and anyone reading this how many world Series winning GM's they can even name. Id guess most here top out around 20.

Im sorry that Ive accurately pointed out that most of your baseball posts are trolling and you dont follow it as closely as you follow other sports (something you readily admit, except when I point it out)

You see everything in black and white. And I mean everything. You think there are two answers to the question. Either Kenny was masterfully skillful or he was completely lucky. You want me to pick one of these so you can attempt to use it against me in a silly Cubs Sox debate.

Since I refuse to answer your silly question (Keith Oblermann, who is literally a baseball historian would probably have to get back to you on it ) you're getting upset and lashing out with silly things like "because you dont know how Kenny Williams 2005 compares with Joe L. Brown's 1960, I have to question your baseball knowledge"


And again, Ive said multiple times Kenny did a good job. A real good job. That's not good enough for you. And you call me protective of Theo

And as per usual, Im showing him how ridiculous he is.

As an aside, you're a casual fan. How would you rank World Series GM's of the 1960's vs the 1970's?

While 2015 has slim pickings with likely only Lester/Shields/Scherzer as "young" TOR starters there looks to be a better selection in 2016 barring extensions being signed:
David Price
Rick Porcello
Jeff Samardzija
Mat Latos
Johnny Cueto
Jordan Zimmermann

There's a decent class of 3/4 starters in 2016 too:
Chad Billingsley
Yovani Gallardo
Ian Kennedy
Mike Leake
Kris Medlen

Porcello is a Boras guy so I'm assuming he's hitting free agency but who knows given Illitch is in DGAF mode.
Not sure Cincy can pay both Latos and Cueto especially since they have some nice pitching prospects waiting.
Shark is shark.
Zimmerman is getting another MRI. Stay away.

2. Price
2/3. Arrieta
4. Masterson
4. Hendricks
5. Wood/Straily/Beeler

Hopefully 1 of Pierce Johnson, Corey Black or Rob Zastryzny will be ready to provide starts too. With the volatility of pitching we need at least 6 solid starters and ideally 7.

I don't think Price will be a stud ace in two years with all the mileage his arm will have undergone by then but having a healthier Sabathia arc would be great. That's a solid A's like rotation.

no

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

NOBODY has moved the meters at this place like dolphin since STU GOTZ left

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I said recent multiple times. I'm not asking you to compare it to the GM of the 1934 World Series winner.
The question I asked has more than two answers! You picked a bad time to use this.
For some reason, you aren't willing to say Kenny did an average job when compared to others.

It is nice of you to say winning the World Series was a "real good job" though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Oh come on.

It's just not worth it any more.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Thank you.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

After I explained how ridiculous your question was you started saying recent.

In fact that is the first time you said recent, right there /\


Dont be coy. We both know what you're doing. Youre question has two answers. Either he was above or below average. Saying average would be a non answer.


Im sorry that my words are not strong enough for you.

I say the same thing about every GM who wins. You wont find me saying a GM did an "Awesome job" or anything like that.



So basically, I said Kenny gambled, this bothered you (even though its true and many Sox fans on this board have agreed with it) so you start going crazy lashing out at me and asking ridiculous questions because of a perceived slight at KW.

Dont ever call anyone here sensitive or any kind of homer again. Im telling you that your GM did a real good job winning the championship and you are taking that as insulting.

Saying average is my answer!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Of course Kenny and Kenny alone signed Abreu, so maybe that was his makeup effort

_________________
"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”