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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:34 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Apples and Oranges. To compare a law abiding citizen, who never was violent and then had his cattle taken from him over grazing rights, to a thug who robbed a store, while physically assaulting the store owner, before striking a Police Officer and trying to wrest his service weapon from him....... is a stretch Hawk Harrelson can't even imagine.

I like how you state the officer's version as fact.


Like a judge, I tend to believe the more credible witnesses.

Wouldnt a judge take into account that the cop has incentive to lie?


Which witnesses do you not find credible and why?


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:43 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Apples and Oranges. To compare a law abiding citizen, who never was violent and then had his cattle taken from him over grazing rights, to a thug who robbed a store, while physically assaulting the store owner, before striking a Police Officer and trying to wrest his service weapon from him....... is a stretch Hawk Harrelson can't even imagine.

I like how you state the officer's version as fact.


Like a judge, I tend to believe the more credible witnesses.

Wouldnt a judge take into account that the cop has incentive to lie?


Which witnesses do you not find credible and why?


The Police Officer had no reason to shoot unless his story is true and the medical evidence from his injuries backs his story. I don't believe his friends, who were in the store he robbed just minutes earlier, because they are criminals. Criminals tend not to like Police Officers and lie whenever convenient. The opportunity to implicate a Police Officer in a shooting was probably irresistible.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:44 am 
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These types of situations always play out the same way. 1. There is the outrage. 2. Civil rights leader grandstanding. 3. False equivocation from defenders of the perpetrator 4. The inevitable call for calm. 5 Discussion and Analysis from the conservative and liberal media. 6. The return to "normalcy".
This is social injustice 101. This appears to be an injustice but there are far other injustices inflicted upon African Americans. I'm not trying to minimize this but the underlying conditions which allow for this to happen are of greater concern. There are a certain sector of Americans that argue that racism doesn't exist or even if they allow for racism will go out of their way to always disprove individual instances of Racism. That's the Fox News approach. To a man they will admit there is racism in the U.S but they never quite know when it occurs. Even when presented with facts that are irrefutable, they'll dissent. The underlying conditions have to change if this is going to be eradicated.


You must watch a metric TON of Fox News.


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:45 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Apples and Oranges. To compare a law abiding citizen, who never was violent and then had his cattle taken from him over grazing rights, to a thug who robbed a store, while physically assaulting the store owner, before striking a Police Officer and trying to wrest his service weapon from him....... is a stretch Hawk Harrelson can't even imagine.

I like how you state the officer's version as fact.


Like a judge, I tend to believe the more credible witnesses.


Which witnesses do you not find credible and why?


Anyone who isn't white, given who you're asking.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:48 am 
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Steve...this seems eerily similar to blind faith in that sack of dogshit George Zimmerman ...I'm sure you have come to realize you were dead wrong on that also....

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:50 am 
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What gets me most about this whole story, was the outrage in the black community after the video of the punk (from the store he robbed minutes before the shooting) was released. Oh, how they hated to have their precious, innocent victim, exposed as the thug, punk, criminal he really was. nothing new about it though. How often do they want to tell the press what a good kid their son was and as a Police Officer, you recognize the gang tattoos and find out he has a rap sheet a mile long. But point it out to them and they lose their minds.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:52 am 
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He had never been arrested.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:54 am 
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312player wrote:
Steve...this seems eerily similar to blind faith in that sack of dogshit George Zimmerman ...I'm sure you have come to realize you were dead wrong on that also....


Is George Zimmerman a loser-yes. Is his life a mess-yes. But did he do anything wrong the night he shot that black kid? No. He was right to watch the kid, as he fit the description of someone suspected in several home burglaries recently in the area. The kid attacked him and he defended himself. the jury saw it the same way, so maybe you need to admit you were dead wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:55 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:
What gets me most about this whole story, was the outrage in the black community after the video of the punk (from the store he robbed minutes before the shooting) was released. Oh, how they hated to have their precious, innocent victim, exposed as the thug, punk, criminal he really was. nothing new about it though. How often do they want to tell the press what a good kid their son was and as a Police Officer, you recognize the gang tattoos and find out he has a rap sheet a mile long. But point it out to them and they lose their minds.







I think people were upset about all the secrecy leading up to that release...almost as if shoplifting =shot 6 times is a reasonable outcome .

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:55 am 
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Elmhurst Steve wrote:

Bottom line- Store owners, Police officers and society in general, is better off the punk is dead. One look at that store video is all you need. That kid was never going to be a contributing member of society.


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Cops give a damn about a negro? Pull the trigger, kill a ni**a, he's a hero.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:56 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Apples and Oranges. To compare a law abiding citizen, who never was violent and then had his cattle taken from him over grazing rights, to a thug who robbed a store, while physically assaulting the store owner, before striking a Police Officer and trying to wrest his service weapon from him....... is a stretch Hawk Harrelson can't even imagine.

I like how you state the officer's version as fact.


Did he really call that tax evading hillbilly a " law abiding citizen"? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:57 am 
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Nas wrote:
He had never been arrested.


Don't let facts get in the way of blatant racism, Nas. I wish BF would ban this twat.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:59 am 
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Nas wrote:
He had never been arrested.


Read the post again. I made the statement about the rap sheet after mentioning the fact this was nothing new and that you can respond to a scene where some kid with gang tattoos and a rap sheet a mile long, will have a Mother telling the press what a good kid he was. But if you dare say to the press in front of the mother that they might want to take notice of the gang tattoos and mention his many arrests....she will lose her mind. Denial.....it's not just a river in Egypt.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:05 am 
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312player wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
What gets me most about this whole story, was the outrage in the black community after the video of the punk (from the store he robbed minutes before the shooting) was released. Oh, how they hated to have their precious, innocent victim, exposed as the thug, punk, criminal he really was. nothing new about it though. How often do they want to tell the press what a good kid their son was and as a Police Officer, you recognize the gang tattoos and find out he has a rap sheet a mile long. But point it out to them and they lose their minds.







I think people were upset about all the secrecy leading up to that release...almost as if shoplifting =shot 6 times is a reasonable outcome .


I'm pretty sure it was the fact he had struck a Police Officer (causing significant injury to the Officer) and attempted to take his service weapon that resulted in him being shot. The theft was not the reason for that. So had he survived, he would have been looking at charges for retail theft and battery (on the store owner) as well as aggravated battery and resisting arrest for the incident with the Officer.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:08 am 
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redskingreg wrote:
Nas wrote:
He had never been arrested.


Don't let facts get in the way of blatant racism, Nas. I wish BF would ban this twat.


I don't want him to get banned and by now it's clear this type of thing isn't ban worthy. Steve fishes for responses. Ultimately his opinion doesn't mean much.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:09 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Apples and Oranges. To compare a law abiding citizen, who never was violent and then had his cattle taken from him over grazing rights, to a thug who robbed a store, while physically assaulting the store owner, before striking a Police Officer and trying to wrest his service weapon from him....... is a stretch Hawk Harrelson can't even imagine.

I like how you state the officer's version as fact.


Did he really call that tax evading hillbilly a " law abiding citizen"? :lol:


You know the drill, JORR. He is a brainwashed, socialized police officer. Thug crimes = bad. White crimes = not bad. God help him if he ever had to think for himself.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:10 am 
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Nas wrote:
redskingreg wrote:
Nas wrote:
He had never been arrested.


Don't let facts get in the way of blatant racism, Nas. I wish BF would ban this twat.


I don't want him to get banned and by now it's clear this type of thing isn't ban worthy. Steve fishes for responses. Ultimately his opinion doesn't mean much.


He is fishing, but I have no doubt he believes most of it. He wouldn't say it to other people's faces, though, unless he was in the right company. Message board tough guy.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:16 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Elmhurst Steve wrote:
Apples and Oranges. To compare a law abiding citizen, who never was violent and then had his cattle taken from him over grazing rights, to a thug who robbed a store, while physically assaulting the store owner, before striking a Police Officer and trying to wrest his service weapon from him....... is a stretch Hawk Harrelson can't even imagine.

I like how you state the officer's version as fact.


Did he really call that tax evading hillbilly a " law abiding citizen"? :lol:


You know the drill, JORR. He is a brainwashed, socialized police officer. Thug crimes = bad. White crimes = not bad. God help him if he ever had to think for himself.



Yes-I do believe there is a huge difference between violent crime and non-violent crimes. I do believe that violent criminals should be punished much more severely. it doesn't mean the white collar criminal shouldn't be prosecuted. But because he is not the threat to society that the violent criminal is, he need not be treated like one.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:20 am 
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Some people would argue that the white collar criminal destroys more lives than that drug dealer or violent criminal ever could.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:21 am 
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Nas wrote:
Some people would argue that the white collar criminal destroys more lives than that drug dealer or violent criminal ever could.


And, all other things being equal, they would typically be correct.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:23 am 
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You are a clown...I'm convinced this is an act . So a guy robs a bank with a gun and steals 12k ...then some scumbag steals 300 peoples pension with a couple swipes of a pen...you seriously think the 12k thief deserves more time?

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:25 am 
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This Just In: Capt. Ron Johnson isn't a gang member.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:26 am 
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So, is the officer's story that he shot Brown because Brown had tried (and failed) to take his weapon?


He's fucked then right?


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:27 am 
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312player wrote:
You are a clown...I'm convinced this is an act . So a guy robs a bank with a gun and steals 12k ...then some scumbag steals 300 peoples pension with a couple swipes of a pen...you seriously think the 12k thief deserves more time?


I don't know how much of it he believes but I know that he is trolling. Same with Bigfan. They've both posted similar things.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:28 am 
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312player wrote:
You are a clown...I'm convinced this is an act . So a guy robs a bank with a gun and steals 12k ...then some scumbag steals 300 peoples pension with a couple swipes of a pen...you seriously think the 12k thief deserves more time?


The criminal with a gun has posed a threat to life. Life is more precious than money. That's why the crimes are treated as they are. The money stolen from pensions may be recoverable. A life cannot be replaced.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:32 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
So, is the officer's story that he shot Brown because Brown had tried (and failed) to take his weapon?


He's fucked then right?


According to his friend the officer story is the kid tried to take his gun and it went off inside the car. After running 40 feet away the kid stopped when the officer said "FREEZE" and started taunting him. Then the 300 lb kid sprinted at the officer.

Considering that his body was about 40 feet from the police truck I'm guessing that the kid had to be more than 40 feet away from the truck before he decided to run back towards the officer.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:35 am 
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Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
So, is the officer's story that he shot Brown because Brown had tried (and failed) to take his weapon?


He's fucked then right?


According to his friend the officer story is the kid tried to take his gun and it went off inside the car. After running 40 feet away the kid stopped when the officer said "FREEZE" and started taunting him. Then the 300 lb kid sprinted at the officer.

Considering that his body was about 40 feet from the police truck I'm guessing that the kid had to be more than 40 feet away from the truck before he decided to run back towards the officer.


Assuming the story is even partially correct, I think it's safe to say the kid made some very stupid decisions too. Now they just have to determine if it was worthy of a bullet or bullets. I'm not real versed on what protocol is in that situation, but I would have to guess they're trained to use mace or a taser or something before lethal force.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:36 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
So, is the officer's story that he shot Brown because Brown had tried (and failed) to take his weapon?


He's fucked then right?


His story was that the gun initially went off during the struggle for the weapon and that was when the kid was shot first. There would be no problem with that bullet. The ones that were fired afterwards from 40 feet away (as alleged), I'm not so sure about. I have no problem with what he did. the kid attacked him and tried to take his weapon, so shooting him is fine with me. But the fact that the kid was not armed (assuming he had no other weapon) could be a problem. We are taught only to shoot at someone who poses an IMMEDIATE threat to you or another. If the kid was retreating and not armed (as well as wounded) I'm not sure he can justify the other 3 bullets. But again, if I were a member of that Police Commission, I would vote that no action be taken against the officer.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:40 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
So, is the officer's story that he shot Brown because Brown had tried (and failed) to take his weapon?


He's fucked then right?


According to his friend the officer story is the kid tried to take his gun and it went off inside the car. After running 40 feet away the kid stopped when the officer said "FREEZE" and started taunting him. Then the 300 lb kid sprinted at the officer.

Considering that his body was about 40 feet from the police truck I'm guessing that the kid had to be more than 40 feet away from the truck before he decided to run back towards the officer.


Assuming the story is even partially correct, I think it's safe to say the kid made some very stupid decisions too. Now they just have to determine if it was worthy of a bullet or bullets. I'm not real versed on what protocol is in that situation, but I would have to guess they're trained to use mace or a taser or something before lethal force.


If this kid was sprinting towards the Officer there are factors that must be considered. The Officer was injured. The kid had already tried to wrest away his weapon and now he's disobeying a directive to stop and racing towards the officer. Shooting may well be seen as reasonable.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:43 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
So, is the officer's story that he shot Brown because Brown had tried (and failed) to take his weapon?


He's fucked then right?


According to his friend the officer story is the kid tried to take his gun and it went off inside the car. After running 40 feet away the kid stopped when the officer said "FREEZE" and started taunting him. Then the 300 lb kid sprinted at the officer.

Considering that his body was about 40 feet from the police truck I'm guessing that the kid had to be more than 40 feet away from the truck before he decided to run back towards the officer.


Assuming the story is even partially correct, I think it's safe to say the kid made some very stupid decisions too. Now they just have to determine if it was worthy of a bullet or bullets. I'm not real versed on what protocol is in that situation, but I would have to guess they're trained to use mace or a taser or something before lethal force.


I believe that the officer initially reversed because one or both of them said something after the officer told them to get out of the street. The rest of the officers story i find hard to believe but we'll find out in the next few months.

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