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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:39 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Also let's not act as if protecting your brother or sister isn't practiced by communities and fraternities across the country. What do you believe the police generally do?


This is a VERY good point.

At the end of the day you still have a cop that fucked up...the looting and protesting has made this national. The microscope and exposure will make it that much more difficult to cover up the fact that a police office put 6 bullets into an unarmed man.

Not advocating looting and violence to raise awareness, but this is where the situation is now.


It's a complete WYC. You don't think the other cops are going to come out and "snitch" that their "brother" shot a guy in the back, do you?


Not at all....of course they will, but the exposure of this is going to make covering it up that much more difficult.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
A few more pages and long time guy's Masters thesis will be just about complete. :eye:

As much as you posts on here yours already is

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:42 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
Nas wrote:
Also let's not act as if protecting your brother or sister isn't practiced by communities and fraternities across the country. What do you believe the police generally do?


This is a VERY good point.

At the end of the day you still have a cop that fucked up...the looting and protesting has made this national. The microscope and exposure will make it that much more difficult to cover up the fact that a police office put 6 bullets into an unarmed man.

Not advocating looting and violence to raise awareness, but this is where the situation is now.


It's a complete WYC. You don't think the other cops are going to come out and "snitch" that their "brother" shot a guy in the back, do you?


Not at all....of course they will, but the exposure of this is going to make covering it up that much more difficult.



I agree. I get angry when people lament the lack of snitches but they are the first to clam up and lawyer up when one of their own friends or family members did something wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:44 pm 
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The hatred of cops on this board is a real eye-opener. Lately, I have been repeatedly been suprised that my opinions on everything in life are in the minority relative to the general population. I don't know why I keep being surprised, but I am. I feel like I live in the twilight zone. I may be losing my mind. I may have already lost it, in fact. How would I know?

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Sorry if this was already posted but I didnt see it.

This is very troubling. This guy is not describing public servants in a democracy.


I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me.

It’s not the police, but the people they stop, who can prevent a detention from turning into a tragedy.


By Sunil Dutta August 19
Sunil Dutta, a professor of homeland security at Colorado Tech University, has been an officer with the Los Angeles Police Department for 17 years. The views presented here are his own and do not represent the LAPD or CTU.

Police in Ferguson, Mo., over the weekend. (Scott Olson/Getty Images)
A teenager is fatally shot by a police officer; the police are accused of being bloodthirsty, trigger-happy murderers; riots erupt. This, we are led to believe, is the way of things in America.

It is also a terrible calumny; cops are not murderers. No officer goes out in the field wishing to shoot anyone, armed or unarmed. And while they’re unlikely to defend it quite as loudly during a time of national angst like this one, people who work in law enforcement know they are legally vested with the authority to detain suspects — an authority that must sometimes be enforced. Regardless of what happened with Mike Brown, in the overwhelming majority of cases it is not the cops, but the people they stop, who can prevent detentions from turning into tragedies.

Working the street, I can’t even count how many times I withstood curses, screaming tantrums, aggressive and menacing encroachments on my safety zone, and outright challenges to my authority. In the vast majority of such encounters, I was able to peacefully resolve the situation without using force. Cops deploy their training and their intuition creatively, and I wielded every trick in my arsenal, including verbal judo, humor, warnings and ostentatious displays of the lethal (and nonlethal) hardware resting in my duty belt. One time, for instance, my partner and I faced a belligerent man who had doused his car with gallons of gas and was about to create a firebomb at a busy mall filled with holiday shoppers. The potential for serious harm to the bystanders would have justified deadly force. Instead, I distracted him with a hook about his family and loved ones, and he disengaged without hurting anyone. Every day cops show similar restraint and resolve incidents that could easily end up in serious injuries or worse.

Sometimes, though, no amount of persuasion or warnings work on a belligerent person; that’s when cops have to use force, and the results can be tragic. We are still learning what transpired between Officer Darren Wilson and Brown, but in most cases it’s less ambiguous — and officers are rarely at fault. When they use force, they are defending their, or the public’s, safety.

Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you. Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?


DON’T ARGUE WITH ME, DON’T CALL ME NAMES, DON’T TELL ME THAT I CAN’T STOP YOU, DON’T SAY I’M A RACIST PIG, DON’T THREATEN THAT YOU’LL SUE ME AND TAKE AWAY MY BADGE. DON’T SCREAM AT ME THAT YOU PAY MY SALARY, AND DON’T EVEN THINK OF AGGRESSIVELY WALKING TOWARDS ME.

I know it is scary for people to be stopped by cops. I also understand the anger and frustration if people believe they have been stopped unjustly or without a reason. I am aware that corrupt and bully cops exist. When it comes to police misconduct, I side with the ACLU: Having worked as an internal affairs investigator, I know that some officers engage in unprofessional and arrogant behavior; sometimes they behave like criminals themselves. I also believe every cop should use a body camera to record interactions with the community at all times. Every police car should have a video recorder. (This will prevent a situation like Mike Brown’s shooting, about which conflicting and self-serving statements allow people to believe what they want.) And you don’t have to submit to an illegal stop or search. You can refuse consent to search your car or home if there’s no warrant (though a pat-down is still allowed if there is cause for suspicion). Always ask the officer whether you are under detention or are free to leave. Unless the officer has a legal basis to stop and search you, he or she must let you go. Finally, cops are legally prohibited from using excessive force: The moment a suspect submits and stops resisting, the officers must cease use of force.

But if you believe (or know) that the cop stopping you is violating your rights or is acting like a bully, I guarantee that the situation will not become easier if you show your anger and resentment. Worse, initiating a physical confrontation is a sure recipe for getting hurt. Police are legally permitted to use deadly force when they assess a serious threat to their or someone else’s life. Save your anger for later, and channel it appropriately. Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you. We have a justice system in which you are presumed innocent; if a cop can do his or her job unmolested, that system can run its course. Later, you can ask for a supervisor, lodge a complaint or contact civil rights organizations if you believe your rights were violated. Feel free to sue the police! Just don’t challenge a cop during a stop.

An average person cannot comprehend the risks and has no true understanding of a cop’s job. Hollywood and television stereotypes of the police are cartoons in which fearless super cops singlehandedly defeat dozens of thugs, shooting guns out of their hands. Real life is different. An average cop is always concerned with his or her safety and tries to control every encounter. That is how we are trained. While most citizens are courteous and law abiding, the subset of people we generally interact with everyday are not the genteel types. You don’t know what is in my mind when I stop you. Did I just get a radio call of a shooting moments ago? Am I looking for a murderer or an armed fugitive? For you, this might be a “simple” traffic stop, for me each traffic stop is a potentially dangerous encounter. Show some empathy for an officer’s safety concerns. Don’t make our job more difficult than it already is.

Community members deserve courtesy, respect and professionalism from their officers. Every person stopped by a cop should feel safe instead of feeling that their wellbeing is in jeopardy. Shouldn’t the community members extend the same courtesy to their officers and project that the officer’s safety is not threatened by their actions?


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
The hatred of cops on this board is a real eye-opener. Lately, I have been repeatedly been suprised that my opinions on everything in life are in the minority relative to the general population. I don't know why I keep being surprised, but I am. I feel like I live in the twilight zone. I may be losing my mind. I may have already lost it, in fact. How would I know?


Besides some unfortunate opinions expressed earlier in the thread, who has "hatred of cops"?

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
The hatred of cops on this board is a real eye-opener.

Other than 312player (who might be your alter ego) I dont think anyone here hates cops


They hate asshole cops


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:47 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
The hatred of cops on this board is a real eye-opener. Lately, I have been repeatedly been suprised that my opinions on everything in life are in the minority relative to the general population. I don't know why I keep being surprised, but I am. I feel like I live in the twilight zone. I may be losing my mind. I may have already lost it, in fact. How would I know?


Who hates cops?

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:48 pm 
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that's like saying Steve only hates black "thugs." It rings kind of hollow.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:50 pm 
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I guess not bowing down to cops and keeping their power in perspective = hating all of them.

Life is black and white, as always.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:51 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
that's like saying Steve only hates black "thugs." It rings kind of hollow.


Why does everything have to be black and white? I'm not saying this specifically about you, but it is amazing to me how many people think this way. Life is gray, and it always will be.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:51 pm 
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I don't see the hatred of cops here on the board, either. Like any profession, there are good and bad. Maybe this guy was a decent cop....he still fucked up.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:52 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
that's like saying Steve only hates black "thugs." It rings kind of hollow.


Okay..so in other words you're unable to support your claim that guys here hate cops.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:52 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
that's like saying Steve only hates black "thugs." It rings kind of hollow.

Not really.

I like cops in general. I give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove they dont deserve it.


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:53 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Life is gray, and it always will be.


Totally agree. This shit is complicated. We don't even know the full story yet and people are calling for this guy's head. "Why hasn't he been charged with murder yet?"

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:56 pm 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Nas wrote:
If a department can afford multiple military vehicles and other military equipment then they should be able to afford a few tasers


Or cameras on every officer.



Shouldn't this likely be coming with google glass and all coming?

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:56 pm 
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I don't hate cops. I definitely dislike them in general, but I'll usually give one the benefit of the doubt when first interacting with him/her.


Stop comparing disliking people of a certain profession. It sounds stupid. People say they hate politicians all the time. This isn't really different. People don't like abuses of authority that can impact their lives. Equating that to hating an entire ethnic group is absurd.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:59 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Life is gray, and it always will be.


Totally agree. This shit is complicated. We don't even know the full story yet and people are calling for this guy's head. "Why hasn't he been charged with murder yet?"


If you agree, then stop saying people "hate cops." It's not that simple. I believe that cops hold a sacred duty to ensure that they are servants of a community, not enforcers meant to strike fear into individuals. This line of thought is what led to me, JORR, and a few others voicing our displeasure for cops expecting free meals and services, like they are entitled to them for simply doing their jobs. We also voiced displeasure for the military equipment that emboldens them to act like they are above the law.

I'm sure, without ever having been a cop, that keeping that perspective is not always easy, given the types of people they occasionally have to deal with. But they must. It is their job.

If that's hating them, then I guess I hate cops.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:02 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I don't hate cops. I definitely dislike them in general, but I'll usually give one the benefit of the doubt when first interacting with him/her.



Agree with this too. It shouldn't really surprise anyone that in a country that has always prided itself on freedom and liberty (until recently, it seems), we are naturally skeptical of the armed members of government sent to enforce laws. It's a healthy skepticism in most cases.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:02 pm 
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This is a good read on why so many of us are not BigFans of the police.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/19/polic ... t-to-get-s

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:03 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
I don't hate cops. I definitely dislike them in general.


Sorry. I should have used the word antipathy intead of hate. Sure there are some asshole cops, just like every profession. But this is about the shittiest job on earth. Thus far in 2014, 34 police officers have been murdered in the line of duty. These guys deal with absolute evil so I don't have to. I think I'm going to go outside and find a cop to hug. Course I'll ask him if its OK first.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:04 pm 
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My D.A.R.E. instructor was a good guy and he was a cop and he kept me from drugs and alcohol!

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:05 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I don't hate cops. I definitely dislike them in general.


Sorry. I should have used the word antipathy intead of hate. Sure there are some asshole cops, just like every profession. But this is about the shittiest job on earth. Thus far in 2014, 34 police officers have been murdered in the line of duty. These guys deal with absolute evil so I don't have to. I think I'm going to go outside and find a cop to hug. Course I'll ask him if its OK first.


It's not even close to the worst job on Earth. If it were, there wouldn't be tons of people jumping at the opportunity.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:05 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I don't hate cops. I definitely dislike them in general, but I'll usually give one the benefit of the doubt when first interacting with him/her.



Agree with this too. It shouldn't really surprise anyone that in a country that has always prided itself on freedom and liberty (until recently, it seems), we are naturally skeptical of the armed members of government sent to enforce laws. It's a healthy skepticism in most cases.


I think this is the rational way to go. I always start with a respectful demeanor. It's when the BS starts flying that I begin to question and talk back.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:05 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
My D.A.R.E. instructor was a good guy and he was a cop and he kept me from drugs and alcohol!


Dammit Rick.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:06 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
I don't hate cops. I definitely dislike them in general, but I'll usually give one the benefit of the doubt when first interacting with him/her.



Agree with this too. It shouldn't really surprise anyone that in a country that has always prided itself on freedom and liberty (until recently, it seems), we are naturally skeptical of the armed members of government sent to enforce laws. It's a healthy skepticism in most cases.


I think this is the rational way to go. I always start with a respectful demeanor. It's when the BS starts flying that I begin to question and talk back.


Yes, I think that was assumed, but perhaps I should state it for Hatchetman:

I don't go around and yell profanity at cops. I'm generally respectful to them unless they were to badger me for some reason. I do, however, discourage business owners from giving them free coffee.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:08 pm 
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Mr. Reason wrote:
This is a good read on why so many of us are not BigFans of the police.

http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/19/polic ... t-to-get-s


I have no problem following police orders. I might be driving a car similar to somebody who just kidnapped a kid. Who the fuck knows? They deserve the benefit of the doubt. If they are acting illegally (highly unlikely) we can deal with that later.

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:09 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
If they are acting illegally (highly unlikely) we can deal with that later.

We can?


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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Hatchetman wrote:
If they are acting illegally (highly unlikely) we can deal with that later.

How does Michael Brown deal with that later if a cop acted illegally?

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 Post subject: Re: St Louis Looters
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:11 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
We can?


Or we can act like vigilantes. take your pick.

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