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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:30 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
A lot of fast food drive thru's already have you talking to someone from a foreign country to make the order.
:lol: What? Where is this happening?

Almost every new McDonalds


Havent you ever noticed the Rosy voice changes from the intro to the second line


Its like

Upbeat women's voice: Hello, Welcome to Mcdonalds, would you like to try a bacon wrap today?

You: No, just 7 apple pies

Gravely man's voice: Pull thru bro


I always thought it was just a recording. I've noticed it in other restaurants too. Checkers/Rally's has some guy with a deep voice come on and scare the shit out of you.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Realistically though, this is the best answer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income

You could then get rid of the minimum wage completely.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:31 pm 
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The crux of the nomination though is people valuing what they deem righteous over their own well being


Like I saw a guy put a picture of machine that takes your order and he posted "this is what I have to say to these minimum wage assholes"


Is that a victory? less jobs?

I dont get people


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:31 pm 
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Nas wrote:

I always thought it was just a recording. I've noticed it in other restaurants too. Checkers/Rally's has some guy with a deep voice come on and scare the shit out of you.


I could go for some Rally's right about now.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:32 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Realistically though, this is the best answer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income

You could then get rid of the minimum wage completely.



Why not just change it to "Guaranteed minimum living conditions" and just give it to them for free?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:33 pm 
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Nas wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
A lot of fast food drive thru's already have you talking to someone from a foreign country to make the order.
:lol: What? Where is this happening?

Almost every new McDonalds


Havent you ever noticed the Rosy voice changes from the intro to the second line


Its like

Upbeat women's voice: Hello, Welcome to Mcdonalds, would you like to try a bacon wrap today?

You: No, just 7 apple pies

Gravely man's voice: Pull thru bro


I always thought it was just a recording. I've noticed it in other restaurants too. Checkers/Rally's has some guy with a deep voice come on and scare the shit out of you.

I still believe it is, the people I have noticed taking my order, I am seeing at 1 of the next 2 windows.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:33 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Realistically though, this is the best answer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income

You could then get rid of the minimum wage completely.



Why not just change it to "Guaranteed minimum living conditions" and just give it to them for free?
Because that is a worse idea?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:34 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Realistically though, this is the best answer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guaranteed_minimum_income

You could then get rid of the minimum wage completely.



In 1988, France was one of the first country to implement a minimum income, called the Revenu minimum d'insertion. In 2009, it was turned into Revenu de solidarité active (RSA), a new system which aimed at solving the Poverty trap by providing low wages workers a complementary income; thus encouraging activity.

So after 21yrs it still wasnt working at solving poverty. Damn french... :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:34 pm 
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But, that's again, another study of historical state-level modest increases in the wage.

This is, if I may, "paradigm-shifting news, gentlemen!"

This would be an historic increase and a drastic one at that.

Ironically, service at McDonald's might actually improve with something like that. They would now be in the market for a much more skilled worker at $15. The bad part is that person might be better suited for a higher-skilled job which will now need to be filled by a less-skilled worker than him being overpaid at $15.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:35 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
Damn french... :lol:



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:35 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
What the hell brought this up..... again?

I think CiJ is pissed that people aren't attending poker games due to lack of funds and wants higher wages or something

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:37 pm 
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conns7901 wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
Why does everyone assume all employees would keep their jobs if a minimum wage increase was mandated. I'd guess most corporations would just reduce the staff and raise the production expectation of each remaining employee to make up for the loss of work force.


That's exactly what would happen.

That's assuming they havent already cut it down to a bare minimum (which most have)


The company my dad works for made record profits in the last fiscal year.

Their response was to eliminate profit sharing and layoff 10% of their workforce.

I work for the richest guy in "Merica and he's currently looking to eliminate my position despite record profits last year. I guess I should've become a secretary.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:38 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:41 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
Why does everyone assume all employees would keep their jobs if a minimum wage increase was mandated. I'd guess most corporations would just reduce the staff and raise the production expectation of each remaining employee to make up for the loss of work force. The best part is that they'd still raise their prices and use the minimum wage increase as the reason despite the fact that their expense are essentially the same.
This is going to happen either way. Automation is already put in as soon as possible. A lot of fast food drive thru's already have you talking to someone from a foreign country to make the order. Workers are already worked to the limit and their breaks are timed down to the second.

Most minimum wage workers are already managed down to the least possible amount needed. If McDonalds could get rid of another employee per shift, they would already have done so.


You seem to think that these corporations are running at 100% efficiency. I don't know about you guys, but I don't typically leave a fast food restaurant with the feeling that i witnessed a flawless business model in action.
Changes are made when they're cost effective. Doubling the minimum wage opens the door to massive changes and it's not a huge leap to guess reduced staff is step one.

If they're already not clicking on all cylinders how is reducing staff going to help that?



BTW, the real answer is these jobs will be eliminated by computers like most jobs are


You're asking the wrong question. The #1 concern is profit not efficiency. If you raise the minimum wage, the first solution for companies would be to reduce cost by reducing workforces. At a bare minimum, profits need to be maintained in order to keep the shareholders from storming the castle.
It will be left to the remaining employees to figure out how to do twice the amount of work in the same amount of time. If they can't do it, i guarantee the guy that just lost his job will be happy to give it a shot.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
But, that's again, another study of historical state-level modest increases in the wage.

This is, if I may, "paradigm-shifting news, gentlemen!"

This would be an historic increase and a drastic one at that.

Ironically, service at McDonald's might actually improve with something like that. They would now be in the market for a much more skilled worker at $15. The bad part is that person might be better suited for a higher-skilled job which will now need to be filled by a less-skilled worker than him being overpaid at $15.


Do you believe "the market" will ever distribute wages in a fairer way than they are distributed now? People have to be able to afford these products and we need to be able to manufacture goods in this country. Based on the current trend everything we buy will be made in another country unless it comes from an expensive boutique or novelty shop.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:45 pm 
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badrogue17 wrote:
pittmike wrote:
What the hell brought this up..... again?

I think CiJ is pissed that people aren't attending poker games due to lack of funds and wants higher wages or something


Frozen pizza. Buy more.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Nas wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
pittmike wrote:
What the hell brought this up..... again?

I think CiJ is pissed that people aren't attending poker games due to lack of funds and wants higher wages or something


Frozen pizza. Buy more.

Working with Baby Mac can sure make a guy angry.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:46 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
But, that's again, another study of historical state-level modest increases in the wage.

This is, if I may, "paradigm-shifting news, gentlemen!"

This would be an historic increase and a drastic one at that.

Ironically, service at McDonald's might actually improve with something like that. They would now be in the market for a much more skilled worker at $15. The bad part is that person might be better suited for a higher-skilled job which will now need to be filled by a less-skilled worker than him being overpaid at $15.


Do you believe "the market" will ever distribute wages in a fairer way than they are distributed now? People have to be able to afford these products and we need to be able to manufacture goods in this country. Based on the current trend everything we buy will be made in another country unless it comes from an expensive boutique or novelty shop.

Id also say that automation is replacing so many people that who the fuck is going to be left to buy the products the automation provides if people don't have jobs.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
called the Revenu minimum d'insertion


Rape culture.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:48 pm 
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WestmontMike wrote:
You're asking the wrong question. The #1 concern is profit not efficiency. If you raise the minimum wage, the first solution for companies would be to reduce cost by reducing workforces. At a bare minimum, profits need to be maintained in order to keep the shareholders from storming the castle.
It will be left to the remaining employees to figure out how to do twice the amount of work in the same amount of time. If they can't do it, i guarantee the guy that just lost his job will be happy to give it a shot.
These companies are always working on this exact thing. Some of them are borderline psychotic about any type of automation and/or efficiency.

If there was any conceivable way they could half the labor force they would right now.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
But, that's again, another study of historical state-level modest increases in the wage.

This is, if I may, "paradigm-shifting news, gentlemen!"

This would be an historic increase and a drastic one at that.

Ironically, service at McDonald's might actually improve with something like that. They would now be in the market for a much more skilled worker at $15. The bad part is that person might be better suited for a higher-skilled job which will now need to be filled by a less-skilled worker than him being overpaid at $15.


Do you believe "the market" will ever distribute wages in a fairer way than they are distributed now? People have to be able to afford these products and we need to be able to manufacture goods in this country. Based on the current trend everything we buy will be made in another country unless it comes from an expensive boutique or novelty shop.


I can't answer that. But, I think a shift of this magnitude will throw things very far out of whack. We are just now starting to get competitive with China and the like again for certain products based on our wages compared to their wages and the time, quality, and cost of transporting those goods back to the US. As a result, jobs/work is starting to come back to the US that went over there as recently as a couple years ago.

I'd hate to see that gap widen again and the flow of jobs start streaming back the other way.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:53 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
You're asking the wrong question. The #1 concern is profit not efficiency. If you raise the minimum wage, the first solution for companies would be to reduce cost by reducing workforces. At a bare minimum, profits need to be maintained in order to keep the shareholders from storming the castle.
It will be left to the remaining employees to figure out how to do twice the amount of work in the same amount of time. If they can't do it, i guarantee the guy that just lost his job will be happy to give it a shot.
These companies are always working on this exact thing. Some of them are borderline psychotic about any type of automation and/or efficiency.

If there was any conceivable way they could half the labor force they would right now.


You're missing the point. I'm saying that these companies will halve their workforce regardless of whether or not it leaves them with enough employees to get the work done. The key is profit.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:56 pm 
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WestmontMike wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
You're asking the wrong question. The #1 concern is profit not efficiency. If you raise the minimum wage, the first solution for companies would be to reduce cost by reducing workforces. At a bare minimum, profits need to be maintained in order to keep the shareholders from storming the castle.
It will be left to the remaining employees to figure out how to do twice the amount of work in the same amount of time. If they can't do it, i guarantee the guy that just lost his job will be happy to give it a shot.
These companies are always working on this exact thing. Some of them are borderline psychotic about any type of automation and/or efficiency.

If there was any conceivable way they could half the labor force they would right now.


You're missing the point. I'm saying that these companies will halve their workforce regardless of whether or not it leaves them with enough employees to get the work done. The key is profit.


How are you going to keep profits up if you don't have the minimum workers needed to make/sell your product?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:58 pm 
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WestmontMike wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WestmontMike wrote:
You're asking the wrong question. The #1 concern is profit not efficiency. If you raise the minimum wage, the first solution for companies would be to reduce cost by reducing workforces. At a bare minimum, profits need to be maintained in order to keep the shareholders from storming the castle.
It will be left to the remaining employees to figure out how to do twice the amount of work in the same amount of time. If they can't do it, i guarantee the guy that just lost his job will be happy to give it a shot.
These companies are always working on this exact thing. Some of them are borderline psychotic about any type of automation and/or efficiency.

If there was any conceivable way they could half the labor force they would right now.


You're missing the point. I'm saying that these companies will halve their workforce regardless of whether or not it leaves them with enough employees to get the work done. The key is profit.

Isnt there a certain point where not getting the job done affects profits?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 2:59 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Isnt there a certain point where not getting the job done affects profits?


If I dont stop reading this thread and posting in it, we will soon find out :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:00 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Isnt there a certain point where not getting the job done affects profits?


If I dont stop reading this thread and posting in it, we will soon find out :lol: :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:01 pm 
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WestmontMike wrote:
You're missing the point. I'm saying that these companies will halve their workforce regardless of whether or not it leaves them with enough employees to get the work done. The key is profit.
That point makes no sense. If what you say is true then why wouldn't they just have one employee right now? That would save them a ton of money right now.

McDonalds isn't going to halve its workforce and then not be able to make hamburgers.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:01 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
Nas wrote:
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
But, that's again, another study of historical state-level modest increases in the wage.

This is, if I may, "paradigm-shifting news, gentlemen!"

This would be an historic increase and a drastic one at that.

Ironically, service at McDonald's might actually improve with something like that. They would now be in the market for a much more skilled worker at $15. The bad part is that person might be better suited for a higher-skilled job which will now need to be filled by a less-skilled worker than him being overpaid at $15.


Do you believe "the market" will ever distribute wages in a fairer way than they are distributed now? People have to be able to afford these products and we need to be able to manufacture goods in this country. Based on the current trend everything we buy will be made in another country unless it comes from an expensive boutique or novelty shop.


I can't answer that. But, I think a shift of this magnitude will throw things very far out of whack. We are just now starting to get competitive with China and the like again for certain products based on our wages compared to their wages and the time, quality, and cost of transporting those goods back to the US. As a result, jobs/work is starting to come back to the US that went over there as recently as a couple years ago.

I'd hate to see that gap widen again and the flow of jobs start streaming back the other way.


Jobs coming back is a great thing. The buying power of that paycheck is also important when you are selling goods. Unless there is a shift in how wages are distributed our country if going to have a major problem in the next 20 to 30 years. Pulling a number out of a hat isn't a solution in my world but adjustments need to be made.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:02 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
But, that's again, another study of historical state-level modest increases in the wage.

This is, if I may, "paradigm-shifting news, gentlemen!"

This would be an historic increase and a drastic one at that.

You're talking moving it from like 7.50 to 15 in one move.

Im a proponent of the 10.10 and then increases every year or so till it gets to the level where it matches inflation


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:03 pm 
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Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote:
I can't answer that. But, I think a shift of this magnitude will throw things very far out of whack. We are just now starting to get competitive with China and the like again for certain products based on our wages compared to their wages and the time, quality, and cost of transporting those goods back to the US. As a result, jobs/work is starting to come back to the US that went over there as recently as a couple years ago.

I'd hate to see that gap widen again and the flow of jobs start streaming back the other way.
I think it should be pointed out that even as probably the biggest fan of $15 minimum wage, I don't think it should happen overnight. Even a 5 year plan that steps it up fro $10 to $15 would be good with me as long as it then continued to raise at some sort of logical level every year.

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