It is currently Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:41 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 264 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 9  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:24 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79590
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Pajamas and sweatpants are bad enough. That's the point. You draw the line at jockstraps. I just draw it a little higher. I'm not requesting that Frank wear his tuxedo, although it would be fine if he did and certainly more respectful than dressing like a homeless bum.
I'm drawing the line at what is just normal. I don't see many guys dressed in jock straps at my local Subway. I do see plenty in shorts and a t-shirt.


I don't get my fashion tips at Subway.

Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Maybe not for a big wig engineer like you. But flying is still special for a lot of people. Sadly, most of them treat it like they are reclining on their couches.
Flying is not a special occasion. It's a mode of transportation. I fly more often than I ride a bus.


#fasttrack

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 6:57 pm
Posts: 92107
Location: To the left of my post
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't get my fashion tips at Subway.
Fine. Jimmy John's.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 42094
Location: Rock Ridge (splendid!)
pizza_Place: Charlie Fox's / Paisano's
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I don't get my fashion tips at Subway.
Fine. Jimmy John's.


Image

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72380
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
It has nothing to do with manners. Wearing shorts, a shirt, and gym shoes should not be offensive to anyone. And if it is, fuck that person. Problem is with them. It's not our responsibility to make sure those around us aren't offended by stupid shit.



Why do you think you get to speak for others on what they should and shouldn't find offensive? Ditka doesn't think anyone should find "Redskins" offensive. That opinion is just as valid as what you just typed. And it's a recipe for a shit society, if you could call it a society at all. I'm gonna do what I want and if you don't like it, FUCK YOU! It's your problem.

Ha! You're the same guy that agreed with us before on the dangers of a society where everybody gets to decide for themselves what's offensive and forcing the rest of society to act accordingly. So WYC Joe?

I'm not speaking for others here, just myself. I'm not telling you to not be offended by someone wearing shorts and a t shirt. I'm saying you deserve to be laughed and mocked for that type of silly thought. Just like I would mock someone who is "offended" by gay marriage. Be offended by whatever you want, just don't expect others to change their behavior if they aren't actually doing anything wrong.


There are few things that offend me. I'm not offended by shorts and a t-shirt on a plane. I just think it coarsens what is already an unpleasant experience.

That's understandable. What is not understandable, IMO, is when you move to thinking lesser of that person or think that wearing that outfit constitutes being "rude". Reclining might be rude. I really dont fly enough to know or even give a shit. I am quite certain that wearing shorts, gym shoes, and a t-shirt is not rude.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:32 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79590
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
FavreFan wrote:
That's understandable. What is not understandable, IMO, is when you move to thinking lesser of that person or think that wearing that outfit constitutes being "rude". Reclining might be rude. I really dont fly enough to know or even give a shit. I am quite certain that wearing shorts, gym shoes, and a t-shirt is not rude.



I think it is rude. It's just become so ubiquitous that people have come to believe it's not. And then, the next thing you know, they're slipping off their shoes exposing long yellow toenails, because, why not? It's about me and my comfort, not you. And if you don't like it, FUCK YOU!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72380
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
That's understandable. What is not understandable, IMO, is when you move to thinking lesser of that person or think that wearing that outfit constitutes being "rude". Reclining might be rude. I really dont fly enough to know or even give a shit. I am quite certain that wearing shorts, gym shoes, and a t-shirt is not rude.



I think it is rude. It's just become so ubiquitous that people have come to believe it's not. And then, the next thing you know, they're slipping off their shoes exposing long yellow toenails, because, why not? It's about me and my comfort, not you. And if you don't like it, FUCK YOU!

This is just silly, and the type of thought that I think deserves to be laughed at and not taken seriously. That's like saying swear words lead to murder so everyone who swears is a rude, violent criminal. Judge people for what they do, not some made up bullshit you are attributing to them for no reason.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:40 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79590
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
That's understandable. What is not understandable, IMO, is when you move to thinking lesser of that person or think that wearing that outfit constitutes being "rude". Reclining might be rude. I really dont fly enough to know or even give a shit. I am quite certain that wearing shorts, gym shoes, and a t-shirt is not rude.



I think it is rude. It's just become so ubiquitous that people have come to believe it's not. And then, the next thing you know, they're slipping off their shoes exposing long yellow toenails, because, why not? It's about me and my comfort, not you. And if you don't like it, FUCK YOU!

This is just silly, and the type of thought that I think deserves to be laughed at and not taken seriously. That's like saying swear words lead to murder so everyone who swears is a rude, violent criminal. Judge people for what they do, not some made up bullshit you are attributing to them for no reason.



It's not really similar at all though. Swear words are unrelated to murder. Wearing sweatpants and removing one's shoes on a commercial flight are both placing one's own comfort as the highest possible value.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72380
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
That's understandable. What is not understandable, IMO, is when you move to thinking lesser of that person or think that wearing that outfit constitutes being "rude". Reclining might be rude. I really dont fly enough to know or even give a shit. I am quite certain that wearing shorts, gym shoes, and a t-shirt is not rude.



I think it is rude. It's just become so ubiquitous that people have come to believe it's not. And then, the next thing you know, they're slipping off their shoes exposing long yellow toenails, because, why not? It's about me and my comfort, not you. And if you don't like it, FUCK YOU!

This is just silly, and the type of thought that I think deserves to be laughed at and not taken seriously. That's like saying swear words lead to murder so everyone who swears is a rude, violent criminal. Judge people for what they do, not some made up bullshit you are attributing to them for no reason.



It's not really similar at all though. Swear words are unrelated to murder. Wearing sweatpants and removing one's shoes on a commercial flight are both placing one's own comfort as the highest possible value.

Nobody mentioned sweatpants. Let's stay on track here JORR.

Wearing shorts and a t shirt is not really placing one's own comfort as the highest possible value. It's just something people wear. And there is no necessary correlation to taking one's shoes off. So yeah, the swearing/murder analogy makes about as much sense. You are taking one act, and extrapolating it to the extreme. I did the same.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:46 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's about me and my comfort, not you. And if you don't like it, FUCK YOU!
You are saying the exact same thing to the person in front of you who reclines their seat.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:47 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79590
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
FavreFan wrote:
Wearing shorts and a t shirt is not really placing one's own comfort as the highest possible value.



I think it is though. It's not the most attractive look. It's not even the most utilitarian way to dress. It's actually strictly about comfort.

You're not going to wear shorts and a t-shirt on your wedding day. Because on that day other things are going to trump your personal comfort. I just think there are other considerations that should trump that comfort while we're stuck with each other on a commercial airline flight. I get that you disagree.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:48 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79590
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
Frank Coztansa wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's about me and my comfort, not you. And if you don't like it, FUCK YOU!
You are saying the exact same thing to the person in front of you who reclines their seat.



No. I'm not affecting that guy. He's affecting me. If I leaned into his space, you'd have an argument.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:17 am
Posts: 72380
Location: Palatine
pizza_Place: Lou Malnatis
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Wearing shorts and a t shirt is not really placing one's own comfort as the highest possible value.



I think it is though. It's not the most attractive look. It's not even the most utilitarian way to dress. It's actually strictly about comfort.

You're not going to wear shorts and a t-shirt on your wedding day. Because on that day other things are going to trump your personal comfort. I just think there are other considerations that should trump that comfort while we're stuck with each other on a commercial airline flight. I get that you disagree.

Consider your audience. There's a great chance I'm wearing that shit if I ever get married.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:50 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79590
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Wearing shorts and a t shirt is not really placing one's own comfort as the highest possible value.



I think it is though. It's not the most attractive look. It's not even the most utilitarian way to dress. It's actually strictly about comfort.

You're not going to wear shorts and a t-shirt on your wedding day. Because on that day other things are going to trump your personal comfort. I just think there are other considerations that should trump that comfort while we're stuck with each other on a commercial airline flight. I get that you disagree.

Consider your audience. There's a great chance I'm wearing that shit if I ever get married.


We'll see what your wife has to say about that. :lol:

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:54 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
FavreFan wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I think it is though. It's not the most attractive look. It's not even the most utilitarian way to dress. It's actually strictly about comfort.

You're not going to wear shorts and a t-shirt on your wedding day. Because on that day other things are going to trump your personal comfort. I just think there are other considerations that should trump that comfort while we're stuck with each other on a commercial airline flight. I get that you disagree.

Consider your audience. There's a great chance I'm wearing that shit if I ever get married.
I call BS on that. You will get married in a jockstrap like a true savage.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:40 pm
Posts: 16490
pizza_Place: Boni Vino
denisdman wrote:
It is interesting how dress standards have changed. As I read through this thread, I recalled that the Three Stooges did the majority of that show in suits. I always thought it was strange for a slapstick comedy show to have its stars doing the show all dressed up. Today, they would be wearing "Who farted" t-shirts.


I was watching an episode recently where the Stooges were trying to upholster a sofa, and with Moe holding up the fabric, Larry cuts through it with a large pair of scissors but simultaneously also cuts through Moe's suit coat. Moe's response, which I'm sure went over my head as a kid and wouldn't be understood by most people today: "Just my luck--I buy a two-pants suit...and he ruins the coat!"

_________________
To IkeSouth, bigfan wrote:
Are you stoned or pissed off, or both, when you create these postings?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:18 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
The Three Stooges are awesome.

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 3:55 pm
Posts: 33070
Location: Wrigley
pizza_Place: Warren Buffet of Cock
Ok help me, I don't get it.

_________________
Hawaii (fuck) You


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:40 pm
Posts: 16490
pizza_Place: Boni Vino
denisdman wrote:
Ok help me, I don't get it.


Back in the day, many suits were sold with two identical pairs of trousers, with the thinking that the pants would wear about about twice as fast as the coat.

_________________
To IkeSouth, bigfan wrote:
Are you stoned or pissed off, or both, when you create these postings?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:47 pm 
Offline
100000 CLUB
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:17 pm
Posts: 102657
pizza_Place: Vito & Nick's
Can you dye this suit henna color?

_________________
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's more fun to be a victim
Caller Bob wrote:
There will never be an effective vaccine. I'll never get one anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 42094
Location: Rock Ridge (splendid!)
pizza_Place: Charlie Fox's / Paisano's
What, henna color at all?

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:29 am
Posts: 65803
Location: Darkside Estates
pizza_Place: A cat got an online degree.
Let me start by saying that I like JORR. He's a nice guy and fun to hang out with.
That being said... I find myself disagreeing with just about everything he posts on this board. I think most of his thoughts are completely ridiculous. This and the wins debate is by far two of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen debated... and debated with intensity that does not match the subject matter. It's almost bizarre.
But he does smell nice, and he is indeed an interesting conversationalist.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014
bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 42094
Location: Rock Ridge (splendid!)
pizza_Place: Charlie Fox's / Paisano's
Darkside wrote:
Let me start by saying that I like JORR. He's a nice guy and fun to hang out with.
That being said... I find myself disagreeing with just about everything he posts on this board. I think most of his thoughts are completely ridiculous. This and the wins debate is by far two of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen debated... and debated with intensity that does not match the subject matter. It's almost bizarre.
But he does smell nice, and he is indeed an interesting conversationalist.


Just a quiet +1 (though I can only, to my exlusive loss, as of yet presume the 'hanging out fun' part)

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:16 am
Posts: 20082
pizza_Place: Aurelios
Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Three Stooges are awesome.


No. Laurel and Hardy are the go to old school B&W slapstick comedy.

_________________
drinky wrote:
If you hate Laurence, then don't listen - don't comment. When he co-hosts the B&B show, take that day off ... listen to an old podcast of a Bernstein solo show and jerk off all day.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:10 pm
Posts: 32067
pizza_Place: Milano's
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Three Stooges are awesome.


No. Laurel and Hardy are the go to old school B&W slapstick comedy.


i prefer Charlie McCarthy & Mortimer Snerd


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 11:10 am
Posts: 42094
Location: Rock Ridge (splendid!)
pizza_Place: Charlie Fox's / Paisano's
Hank Scorpio wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
The Three Stooges are awesome.


No. Laurel and Hardy are the go to old school B&W slapstick comedy.


Image

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:49 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:00 am
Posts: 79590
Location: Ravenswood Manor
pizza_Place: Pete's
Darkside wrote:
Let me start by saying that I like JORR. He's a nice guy and fun to hang out with.
That being said... I find myself disagreeing with just about everything he posts on this board. I think most of his thoughts are completely ridiculous. This and the wins debate is by far two of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen debated... and debated with intensity that does not match the subject matter. It's almost bizarre.
But he does smell nice, and he is indeed an interesting conversationalist.


:lol: I like you too, Darkside. You're much less of an asshole in person.

I can understand you being indifferent to the way others dress when you are forced to be in a close proximity to them for several hours, but I'm not sure how my position of preferring not to be forced into a seat next to someone who is so lazy/slovenly they couldn't be bothered to dress properly and instead donned a wardrobe more suitable for the boudoir than a commercial airline flight as "ridiculous".

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:13 pm
Posts: 15062
pizza_Place: Four hours away....and on fire :-(
JORR, you free over the next couple weeks? Let's go shopping for my trip to Ireland outfit.

_________________
-- source


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:29 am
Posts: 65803
Location: Darkside Estates
pizza_Place: A cat got an online degree.
As long as don't stink like BO or shitty drawers I really don't give a damn what they're wearing as long as we're talking something that covers up their private parts.

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014
bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 3351
Location: Far East 'burbs.
pizza_Place: Pasaro's, St. Joe, MI.
I have noted how the relaxed dress code in public has even found it's way into our little, conservative German Lutheran church (is there any other kind of German Lutheran church besides a conservative one?) My Dad used to wear shorts and polo to church 9-10 months of the year, but mostly due to the sweats caused by the chemo. Now, many others are in jeans, maybe khakis and a polo stolen from Jake at State Farm. Even the ushers are now pants and open dress shirt. I was suit/tie absolute, except on the hottest of summer days, even when my kids were little. Now I, too favor the dress shirt and pants (mostly because I can't get a 28" neck dress shirt to wear a tie thanks to my burgeoning obesity).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:50 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:29 am
Posts: 65803
Location: Darkside Estates
pizza_Place: A cat got an online degree.
28?

_________________
"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014
bigfan wrote:
Many that is true, but an incomplete statement.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 264 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ... 9  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group