You guys are working pretty hard to say Arrieta is better than Sale without actually saying Arrieta is better than Sale.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't think he's better than Sale. Though, now if we talk Kyle Hendricks thats a different story. Len said he's like Greg Maddux.

Of course you don't.

But then we get statistics saying he is better than Sale.

Still better than the Rizzo/Abreu stolen bases dominance though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I agree with you.

It does look like he's better than Sale.

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You know me like that.

If you're building a team for one year and had the choice between Arrieta and Sale, would anybody take Arrieta?

No, not at this time. Arrieta has to prove this isnt a fluke.

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Yes, he has to prove he can continue to be better than Sale.

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You know me like that.

i like the way you think

Careful Mike, that can get you in more trouble than Erin Andrews.

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2018
#ExtendLafleur
10 More Wins

Thank you for being more open with it than others.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Uhhh...he is playing in that same launching pad this season.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Like Rizzo and Samardzija, I fade down the stretch.

I do expect I'll be able to keep my strength up when The(o) Plan is providing October baseball

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

No shit. So if it's helping Abreu, it's hurting Sale. Pitching is hitting. Hitting is pitching. How the fuck does xFIP adjust for that? And for Arrieta striking out pitchers. Is s fraction of a run per game huge or not? You guys should really decide. Because I'm sure facing a pitcher instead of a professional hitter accounts for some fraction.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Oh, so you want adjusted ERA+ which factors in league and ballpark?

2014 Arrieta: 145
2013 Sale: 137
2012 Sale: 140

What else do you have?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

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IMU has Sox Subdivision on the ropes!!!

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He's swung and missed more often than not. You throw 1100 punches in a fight, you're bound to land a few.

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True.

One thing to consider is that Jake has pitched about 150 innings while Sale pitched another 50 or so innings in each of those years. And while their stats are already very similar to the point where the differences are almost statistically irrelevant. Through 150 innings in 2013 and 2012, Sale's stats are almost identical to Arrieta's are this year. ERA of 2.77 and 2.65, whip of 1.058 and 1.033.

So what did i learn from looking up those stats? Nothing. You're welcome.

They're down for the count, Hank. Down.

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And he doesn't even understand ERA+. Maybe THE INQUISITOR can explain it to him.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Be careful. You'll lose all your mults if you get into it with him.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Please let us know where you take exception.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Arrieta's ERA+ is unrelated to Sale's. It's based on the league average ERA and adjusted.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Yes.

And that number is a reflection of how much better he is than his peers. And you are the number one propopent around here of 'you can only play the games you play against the people you play against and the ballparks you play in.' And ERA+ shows that Arrieta has dominated his game situations in 2014 better than Sale did in either 2012 or 2013.

Arrieta has separated himself from other NL pitchers more than Sale has separated himself from other AL pitchers.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

So how can you compare two guys using a number based on their peers when they have different peers? For that matter, how can you compare them using 'offense against" numbers when one guy faces pitchers and the other does not?

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

This year PPFP

Sale 101.1
Arrieta 104.7

100 would be neutral. Over 100 is hitter friendly. Under 100 is pitcher friendly.

Based on these numbers Jake has pitched more often in hitter friendly parks this season then Chris. The numbers are adjusted for actual innings pitched by park.

OK JORR here is the definition from Baseball Reference

PPFp, Custom Park Factors

Since we have gamelogs, we can also customize our park factors to the parks the pitcher actually pitched in. This can have an impact in a division like the NL West where you have three fairly extreme pitcher parks and two fairly extreme hitter parks. Usually, pitchers' custom park factors are less than a point away from their teams' park factor, but on occasion it can be multiple points. For pre-gamelog seasons, we use the team's park factor. All park factors are 3-year.

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So what you're now saying is that you cannot compare pitchers based on wins since they are facing different schedules / teams / lineups?

How are you going to weasel out of this? I'm intrigued.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Oh this should be good.

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Elections have consequences.

A decision is not dependent on conditions the same way these other measures are. Why would you expect a guy facing a nine hitter lineup to allow as few runs or hits as a guy facing eight hitters and a near automatic out?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.