So the White Sox have been rebuilding the past two years even though they seemingly wanted to win too.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Right, but they havent made any moves that have screwed the future. They've been acquring young players and dumping veterans when possible

What is the ultimate point you are trying to make, Rick?

You want to attribute the final 2 years of the Hendry Era to part of the Theo Rebuilding Plan? What difference does it make?

_________________
You know me like that.

Once again, Garza was 26 years old and a proven MLB player. It's not like they trade for a 32 year old in a contract year.

Anyways, one or two minor deals doesn't mean they weren't looking towards the future. They may have wanted to not be one of the worst teams in the league though. Also, as for the prospect rankings, isn't it the accepted stance that the Cubs farm system was horrible under Hendry and that Theo had to redo the whole thing? Why should I value the prospects that highly then?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Okay, let me preface by saying this isn't about you in specific. But it can't be both ways. Cub fans love to act like their team is the cock of the walk in Chicago until it suits them to say that they are small market. It reminds me of the bums selling Streetwise. They want to beg me for money but act all prideful and shit too. That doesn't work for me. If you're weak, take your hat in your hand. You'll be received better when asking for something. Back to the Cubs, the supposed weakness of Ricketts is an excuse used to explain away Tampa type payrolls, but then it seems to be a foregone conclusion among Cub fans that they can select whoever they want among Scherzer, Price, or Lester, or maybe even two of the three, because after all, who doesn't want to play for the King Kong heritage ESPN powerhouse Cubs?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Yeah, Garza was considered a "now and later" move. There was plenty of talk about keeping him as a key pitcher for World Series champions 2015.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

It wasnt a minor deal. It was two of their top five prospects. You dont trade those guys when you're rebuilding.

Garza was 26. The two premier prospects they traded for him were 22 and 20

Find a quote from Hendry talking about how great this was for 2015.

_________________
You know me like that.

I just found it amusing that IMU created a thread that basically said that after 5 years of "insert whatever you want to call it" that they finally look like they may be ready to field a competitive team. I get the excitement of what the future may hold but to use #missionaccomplished in your post when any halfway decent organization could get competitive in 5 years of losing seems funny to me.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

What is the point?

Some fans are hypocritical at times?

Ok, agreed. Who cares?

Also, the Cubs could sign one and maybe even two of those guys and still have a middle of the road payroll. Its not like that one move will make them the Yankees or Dodgers.

If they do start spending, then I will admit I was wrong about Ricketts.

There was much talk of helping now and later.

But personally I think that was a rationalization for Hendry trading away valuable future pieces (Arhcer is waaay better than Garza now) trying to save his own ass

The Cubs are so sad! All Cubs fans should be ashamed and never talk about their team! You are offending baseball purists!

_________________

That was a "win now" move. Hendry was justifying trading half the farm by saying they were adding a guy in the prime of his career, not because he thought Garza would help down the road.

_________________
You know me like that.

Chris Archer was the centerpiece. Garza was a proven 26 year old MLB pitcher. A rebuilding team is going to take on a 26 year old pitcher and not worry about losing a younger pitcher who may never be as good as the one you are getting. The second guy looks like he was never even a top 100 prospect. To call him a premier prospect seems inaccurate.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The point is that it is okay for Cub fans to criticize their own team. Not many do. jimmypasta is treated like a lunatic by his fellow Cub fans. It's like they are reading from a book of excuses. Imagine how annoying it would be if almost all Sox fans were Keyser Soze.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Your info about the centerpiece of the trade and Lee's ranking is incorrect

You have selective hearing/reading with Cub fans (especially as it relates to csfmb cub fans)

I critcize them quite frequently. So does Curious Hair. Bad Rogue. Hank Scorpio. None of us gets treated like a lunatic and for good reason.


Pasta says crazy ass shit like Rizzo shouldnt play because of Bryan LaHair and Jeff Keppinger is the key to competing. There are tons of examples of him saying things like that. Those things are mock worthy.

I assumed you meant Guyer since he was the minor league player of the year for the Cubs.

Lee looks to have been a top 100 prospect. I don't know who the centerpiece was then if it wasn't Archer.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Those things are all being overwhelmed by Noisewater's impassioned defense of a seven year rebuild right now.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

If that isnt a perfect example of the selective hearing/reading I dont know what is. (Ive criticized them in this thread, CH started a thread ripping them yesterday) but you focus on Noisewater making a perfectly reasonable argument that the rebuild truly began in 2011 (again, who cares)

Ya know what I find unacceptable about the Cubs?


The lack of titles in the last 106 years.

Who cares? You and Dr. Kenneth Noisewater.

That is why I was jumped on for the statement.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm perfectly fine with people thinking it's a 106-year rebuild if it floats your boat.

I just find your definition interesting that rebuilds can be determined in hindsight. To me, that's just being bad, which the Cubs have been, for quite some time.

I apologize for jumping on you.

_________________
You know me like that.

I pointed out an inaccuracy on your part.

I guess we define rebuilding differently. No problem. Its really been a 106 year rebuild.

official rebuild stared 2011. so next year is year 5. would expect flirting with .500 and potentially wild card.

_________________
Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Everything is determined in hindsight. If the Cubs win 100 games next year they'll say it wasn't a rebuilding year. If they are below .500 I bet they'll say the rebuilding is almost complete.

Very few teams go into a season saying "We want to lose 100 games and we are rebuilding". That doesn't mean in June they aren't looking towards the future.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

See, this is just dumb. My definition is bad but this one is good?

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It was a joke. I explained my definition earlier.

No, it isn't.

Theo explained this on Day One that people wouldn't complain about what they will be doing for a few years.

_________________
You know me like that.

Right. In 2000, when the Sox used advertising tag "The Kids Can Play" it wasn't because Sox brass thought they were going to win the division and have the best record in the AL. It was more like, "Hey, these young guys don't suck, come out and spend some money!" They were definitely rebuilding. Until they weren't.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don