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Do you believe in Theo's Plan
YES 72%  72%  [ 23 ]
NO 28%  28%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 32
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:03 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
I literally have no idea what is happening in this thread. It looks very much to me like RPB drank 3 grande mocha fraps with a triple shot.

Jorr thinks Theo connned you and the majority of Cub fans into thinking losing is the right way and only way to build a contender.

I disagree

80% of cub fans on the board have backed me up.

Rick is trying to frame Cubs fans being realistic as a negative


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:05 pm 
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How can Cub fans think losing is the only way? Hendry proved you can build a contender by overspending. It didnt work but he had a contender.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:11 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
How can Cub fans think losing is the only way? Hendry proved you can build a contender by overspending. It didnt work but he had a contender.
Plenty of people said it was the best way.

Turns out 80% of Cubs fans didn't agree. Turns out Theo chose a bad way to rebuild.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:13 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
List of Cub fans who have explicitly stated that losing for years was unreasonable and not necessary
IMU

I didn't say it was unreasonable.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:16 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Hank Scorpio wrote:
How can Cub fans think losing is the only way? Hendry proved you can build a contender by overspending. It didnt work but he had a contender.
Plenty of people said it was the best way.

Turns out 80% of Cubs fans didn't agree. Turns out Theo chose a bad way to rebuild.


Did people say it was the ONLY way? It's certainly a way...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:36 pm 
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Here is what I see The Plan is:

#1. Draft as many potent bats as you can

#2. Acquire SP through Free Agency and trades.

#3. Lose on purpose to get higher draft picks.

You can do 1 & 2 without doing 3.

High draft picks in baseball mean nothing compared to the NBA or NFL drafts. It really is a guessing game.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:37 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
Here is what I see The Plan is:

#1. Draft as many potent bats as you can

#2. Acquire SP through Free Agency and trades.

#3. Lose on purpose to get higher draft picks.

You can do 1 & 2 without doing 3.

High draft picks in baseball mean nothing compared to the NBA or NFL drafts. It really is a guessing game.

Looks like they might have guessed well then?

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:40 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
Here is what I see The Plan is:

#1. Draft as many potent bats as you can

#2. Acquire SP through Free Agency and trades.

#3. Lose on purpose to get higher draft picks.

You can do 1 & 2 without doing 3.

High draft picks in baseball mean nothing compared to the NBA or NFL drafts. It really is a guessing game.


Draft position does not mean anything in baseball. However, the amount of money you have to spend on your draft does mean quite a lot. Also, top 10 draft picks are protected when signing free agents, so there is also that.

In other words, theoretically, you can be more effective at #1 and #2 if you do #3.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:41 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
Here is what I see The Plan is:

#1. Draft as many potent bats as you can

#2. Acquire SP through Free Agency and trades.

#3. Lose on purpose to get higher draft picks.

You can do 1 & 2 without doing 3.

High draft picks in baseball mean nothing compared to the NBA or NFL drafts. It really is a guessing game.

Looks like they might have guessed well then?


Based on what? Baez & Alcanatra are leftovers from the Hendry regime. Soler was a FA signing.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:29 pm 
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Prospect rankings.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:06 pm 
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jimmypasta wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Looks like they might have guessed well then?


Based on what? Baez & Alcanatra are leftovers from the Hendry regime. Soler was a FA signing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_A ... Year_Award

List of players that won the BA Minor League POTY.

Pretty good list of guys.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:28 pm 
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http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/ ... ressure-on

Quote:
CHICAGO -- With an 88 mph sinker for a strike to Matt Carpenter, promising Chicago Cubs pitcher Kyle Hendricks kicked off the penultimate game of the "BR era" of Wrigley Field. That's Before Replay.
Video didn't kill the radio star at Wrigley when TV came around long ago, as good ol' Pat Hughes will certainly show up again in a Cosby sweater next April. But will a 4,000-square-foot videoboard in left field (and possibly a smaller one in right) destroy the unique Wrigley Field charm when it's installed next season? Or will it be the main branch on the money tree that feeds the supergenius front office that is building a team of destiny from the ground up?

Maybe it's a little bit of both.

As one 50-something Cubs lifer lamented to me Tuesday night, you can't stand in the way of progress. Well, you can, until the mayor pushes progress through city council.

Of all the many changes coming to Wrigley in the next four to five years as construction begins -- $375 million of the $575 renovation will be spent on Wrigley Field itself -- nothing will change the culture of the place like a giant TV in left-center field.

It's both necessary progress and an unnecessary hindrance to the pure Wrigley experience.

Before the inevitable change happened, I felt respect had to paid.

With no reason to hit the North Side park other than for simple genuflection, I made my way there Tuesday night for the penultimate home game of the season.
After John Vincent sang a wonderful anthem, I ducked down into the good seats -- plenty were still available -- to pay homage to what remains of timeless Wrigley Field.

What was there to see? Nothing new and everything old.

I sat for a bit and just looked around at the fans packed in the lower bowl, their eyes mostly locked in on a game that meant nothing to the Cubs. I listened. Chatter filled the park. A beautiful sound punctured only by the PA announcer: "Batting next, the left fielder, Matt Holliday."

Wrigley is best experienced in the sunshine, but night games have their own energy. Fall night games that matter are truly special. Cardinals fans made up much of the crowd, and surely they were disappointed with an extra-innings loss.

On this first night of fall, Wrigley wasn't packed, but it was buzzing, especially for a last-place team.

It might not look that way on TV, but video can lie. What makes antique (not antiquated) Wrigley so beloved is that everyone, especially those in the lower bowl, is so close to the action.

And, of course, it helps when fans want to be close to the action.

That's where the real change comes in.

While the cosmetic changes are important, what fans really want is a team worth watching in September for something other than what they can glean about the future.

What will September bring next year? Will hope return to a fanbase who is waiting, patiently, for a payoff to president of baseball operations Theo Epstein's much-needed rebuilding plan?

After three years of exiling veterans and stocking up on young talent, the important question is: What will this November and December bring? Will the Cubs be active in adding talent instead of shopping it? There's little question next season will be another bridge year, but the on-field product should be -- has to be -- improved.

Pressed about the unknown, someone in the Cubs' hierarchy admitted to me the 2015 team might not be competing for a playoff spot down the stretch, but it will be an interesting team to watch. That, of course, depends on how this cosseted group of young talent performs.

Jorge Soler, Javier Baez, Arismendy Alcantara, the soon-to-be-arriving Kris Bryant, the relative graybeards in Anthony Rizzo and Starlin Castro, solid starters Jake Arrieta, Hendricks and the young power arms in the bullpen. The so-called core, along with players still ripening in the minors, have the ability (raw as it might be in some cases) to compete, they just need complementary talent around them. The Cubs have the money, and seemingly the desire, to add free-agent pieces to the mix. Starting pitching, maybe an outfielder or a catcher like Russell Martin.
This season has had some real bright spots with the development and maturation of those young players. The $575 million renovation of Wrigley and the surrounding area was finally completely approved, though lawsuits from the rooftop owners are still pending. Progress is no longer a myth. Next year, it needs to be translated into more victories.

Now that the Cubs have finally started the onerous process of renovating Wrigley -- no more talk about obstructionism and no more civics lessons -- there are no more excuses. Well, until they get hosed on the TV deal, I suppose.

After three years of waiting -- and to be sure, most Cubs fans have been patient and trusting of Tom Ricketts, Epstein and all the rest -- there has to be some positive movement forward.

It's time for them to act like a big league team again. They've got the videoboard, now the Cubs need to give their fans a team worthy of their attention.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:01 am 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
jimmypasta wrote:
Here is what I see The Plan is:

#1. Draft as many potent bats as you can

#2. Acquire SP through Free Agency and trades.

#3. Lose on purpose to get higher draft picks.

You can do 1 & 2 without doing 3.

High draft picks in baseball mean nothing compared to the NBA or NFL drafts. It really is a guessing game.


Draft position does not mean anything in baseball. However, the amount of money you have to spend on your draft does mean quite a lot. Also, top 10 draft picks are protected when signing free agents, so there is also that.

In other words, theoretically, you can be more effective at #1 and #2 if you do #3.


but they aren't signing free agents

Again, you cannot tell me you have revamped scouting and then need to artificially prop up those scouts.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:20 am 
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Just wondering, what will be the Sox Klan angle if the Cubs are in a wildcard race next year?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:23 am 
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bigfan wrote:
Just wondering, what will be the Sox Klan angle if the Cubs are in a wildcard race next year?
80% of Cubs fans think the plan was bad.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:26 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Just wondering, what will be the Sox Klan angle if the Cubs are in a wildcard race next year?
80% of Cubs fans think the plan was bad.

A more accurate statement is that the plan took too long

Are you going to try and say HA! Cub fans didnt know what a good plan it was if they start winning? :lol:

That would be the ultimate Soxy move


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:27 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Just wondering, what will be the Sox Klan angle if the Cubs are in a wildcard race next year?
80% of Cubs fans think the plan was bad.

A more accurate statement is that the plan took too long
I said you were going to regret this thread in the morning.

80% of Cubs fans don't believe in Theo's plan.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:28 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Just wondering, what will be the Sox Klan angle if the Cubs are in a wildcard race next year?
80% of Cubs fans think the plan was bad.

A more accurate statement is that the plan took too long


In that case, I would expect that 80% of Cub fans stop mocking the White Sox for "rebuilding on the fly".

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:29 am 
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Rick, I dont regret the thread


You continue to prove that you will do anything to paint Cub fans in a negative light

Believe in the plan? Conned

Dont believe in plan? Also wrong


Hilarious


Last edited by rogers park bryan on Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:29 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
A more accurate statement is that the plan took too long
I would agree with that. I've said many times that they should have been able to compete for the WC this year. 85-87 wins would get that done. Thats a good season, but not a team of world beaters by any means.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:29 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Just wondering, what will be the Sox Klan angle if the Cubs are in a wildcard race next year?
80% of Cubs fans think the plan was bad.

A more accurate statement is that the plan took too long


In that case, I would expect that 80% of Cub fans stop mocking the White Sox for "rebuilding on the fly".

I dont think its 80% but I agree.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:30 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Dont believe in plan? Also wrong
Never said this.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:30 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
A more accurate statement is that the plan took too long
I would agree with that. I've said many times that they should have been able to compete for the WC this year. 85-87 wins would get that done. Thats a good season, but not a team of world beaters by any means.

Yes, I expressed that exact sentiment in a thread in 2011


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:32 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Dont believe in plan? Also wrong
Never said this.

What are you saying then?

BigFan asks about Sox fans reactions to possible future success and you come back with "cubs fans dont like the plan"

What does that mean?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:33 am 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
A more accurate statement is that the plan took too long
I would agree with that. I've said many times that they should have been able to compete for the WC this year. 85-87 wins would get that done. Thats a good season, but not a team of world beaters by any means.


But that's not what The Plan was. It seems like a lot of people are saying they believe in The Plan but they don't believe in The Plan. It's almost as if they are unhappy with what's occurring but they are loathe to point a finger at the guy who is doing it. To me, that's the very definition of a con. Go, Theo, go!

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:35 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
A more accurate statement is that the plan took too long
I would agree with that. I've said many times that they should have been able to compete for the WC this year. 85-87 wins would get that done. Thats a good season, but not a team of world beaters by any means.
Yes, I expressed that exact sentiment in a thread in 2011
Right. Maybe people did, but now all of a sudden for some Cubs fans its OK to have this 'plan' last 4, 5, 6+ years. There is no reason* the Cubs should lose 90+ games 3 or 4 years in a row. There is no reason* the Sox should either. (*barring just a rash of injuries to key guys)

I specifically remember threads that bigfan and jimmypasta started earlier this year that were more or less calling out Theo for not having a team that could at least somewhat compete this year. Granted, those two can post some pretty outlandish sports "thoughts", but they were right on the money with that. I remember you and I agreeing with them 100%.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:35 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But that's not what The Plan was.


what is The Plan


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:36 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Dont believe in plan? Also wrong
Never said this.

What are you saying then?

BigFan asks about Sox fans reactions to possible future success and you come back with "cubs fans dont like the plan"

What does that mean?
I assume he was talking about how the plan would be working if they were in the wildcard hunt next year. 80% of Cubs don't believe in the plan. So, if the White Sox fans that dislike the plan are proven wrong, they can just stand with the 80% of Cubs fans that didn't believe in it either.

Any White Sox fan who was critical of the plan is now off the hook because it is now the opinion of a huge majority of Cubs fans.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:38 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Frank Coztansa wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
A more accurate statement is that the plan took too long
I would agree with that. I've said many times that they should have been able to compete for the WC this year. 85-87 wins would get that done. Thats a good season, but not a team of world beaters by any means.


But that's not what The Plan was.

Of course it was. The plan is to get better. That's the problem. Its taking too long to get there.

As dolphin has pointed out several times Theo has admitted to it being behind schedule.

Im absolutely certain Theo thought they'd be decent enough by year 3.

Maybe its Theo's fault. But they didnt plan to be this bad for this long


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:40 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Dont believe in plan? Also wrong
Never said this.

What are you saying then?

BigFan asks about Sox fans reactions to possible future success and you come back with "cubs fans dont like the plan"

What does that mean?
I assume he was talking about how the plan would be working if they were in the wildcard hunt next year. 80% of Cubs don't believe in the plan. So, if the White Sox fans that dislike the plan are proven wrong, they can just stand with the 80% of Cubs fans that didn't believe in it either.

Any White Sox fan who was critical of the plan is now off the hook because it is now the opinion of a huge majority of Cubs fans.


You've jumped the shark. Step away from the computer and read this post to yourself out loud. You're welcome.

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