Grace was better than Konerko.

Brick · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:39 am

jimmypasta wrote:

Go ahead and laugh off Baseball reference material. I guess stats only count when you can use them in your favor. In the argument of "Grace vs. Konerko"=CASE CLOSED!

2005.

Don Tiny · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:39 am

Frank Coztansa wrote:

Douchebag wrote:

Most DUI's in the 2000's!

And 2010's

Do they go in the 'hits' column too?

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:39 am

WORLD SERIES TITLES WON WHILE PLAYING ON A CHICAGO TEAM

Paul Konerko- 1
Mark Grace- 0

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:39 am

Douchebag wrote:

jimmypasta wrote:

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

Are you serious, jimmy? One guy hit 35 homers a year. The other guy hit 12.

SLG % doesn't show that much of a discrepancy because Grace was a doubles machine.

Total Bases:
Mark Grace = 3,565
Paul Kornerko = 4,083

konerko played 2 more seasons.

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:40 am

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

jimmypasta wrote:

Go ahead and laugh off Baseball reference material. I guess stats only count when you can use them in your favor. In the argument of "Grace vs. Konerko"=CASE CLOSED!

2005.

Grace won one,too.

Douchebag · **Joined:** Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:03 pm **Posts:** 43552

jimmypasta wrote:

Douchebag wrote:

jimmypasta wrote:

SLG % doesn't show that much of a discrepancy because Grace was a doubles machine.

Total Bases:
Mark Grace = 3,565
Paul Kornerko = 4,083

konerko played 2 more seasons.

Total Bases per Season:
Mark Grace = 3,565/16 = 222.81
Paul Kornerko = 4,083/18 = 226.83

You lose again Jimmy

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:43 am

So the homerun guy averaged 4 more bases per season? big deal.

Baseball reference rates the ALL-TIME hitters. Grace is 237 & Paulie at 335.

Frank Coztansa · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:44 am

TRIPLES

Mark Grace- 45
Paul Konerko- 8

INSIDE THE PARK HOME RUNS
Paul Konerko- inexplicably, has 1
Mark Grace- 0

Brick · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:45 am

jimmypasta wrote:

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

jimmypasta wrote:

Go ahead and laugh off Baseball reference material. I guess stats only count when you can use them in your favor. In the argument of "Grace vs. Konerko"=CASE CLOSED!

2005.

Grace won one,too.

Add in all the titles won by Maddux in Atlanta and you've got a former Cubs dynasty!

Douchebag · **Joined:** Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:03 pm **Posts:** 43552

Frank Coztansa wrote:

INSIDE THE PARK HOME RUNS
Paul Konerko- inexplicably, has 1
Mark Grace- 0

Konerko must have injected himself while he was rounding 2nd on that one. Yikes....

WestmontMike · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:47 am

jimmypasta wrote:

Go ahead and laugh off Baseball reference material. I guess stats only count when you can use them in your favor. In the argument of "Grace vs. Konerko"=CASE CLOSED!

I suggested not using stats at all. You brought up baseballreference.com, I didn't. I like Grace. Overall, I think it's a good comparison.

Douchebag · **Joined:** Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:03 pm **Posts:** 43552

jimmypasta wrote:

So the homerun guy averaged 4 more bases per season? big deal.

Baseball reference rates the ALL-TIME hitters. Grace is 237 & Paulie at 335.

You claimed Konerko's total base count was higher because he played 2 extra seasons. I showed you that when comparing the number on a per season average, that your claim was wrong. Are you trolling here?

Rod · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:49 am

WestmontMike wrote:

I like Grace.

Greatest first baseman with warning track power that ever played the game.

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:49 am

I have seen a lot of Cubs vs. Sox fans dialogue on here lately. The scary part is the Sox fans make more sense to me when discussing Theo's Reign. I started this thread to get on the right side of the fence again. Konerko seemed like a class act and he was a great ballplayer. Grace just seemed like a great ballplayer and that's where it stops.

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:53 am

http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/elo.shtml

explanation of all-time hitters rating system.

I scanned through this and it made my head hurt. Maybe one of our bright,young minds could explain it.

THE INQUISITOR · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:55 am

No one and I mean NO ONE could work the upstairs room at Hi-Tops like Grace...... talk about HoF moves... the guy was a SHARK before Jeff or CSFMB "Shark"

WestmontMike · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:56 am

jimmypasta wrote:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/elo.shtml

explanation of all-time hitters rating system.

I scanned through this and it made my head hurt. Maybe one of our bright,young minds could explain it.

I told you, create an account and vote.

spmack · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:56 am

Without me even looking at BR, I know that Grace never had 100 RBI's in a season...there was one year he had 60 before the break, but only ended up with 98.

DannyB · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:01 pm

Shocking cumulative WAR discrepancy:

Grace: 45.6
Konerko: 25.0

Clutch factor:

Grace: +6.62
Konerko: -7.57

Brick · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:18 pm

http://score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=70074

You're getting better jimmy!

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:

WestmontMike wrote:

I like Grace.

Greatest first baseman with warning track power that ever played the game.

Goddam that motherfucker should have roided up

He would have basically been Jason Giambi in his prime

Don Tiny · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:24 pm

http://m.mlb.com/video/v36552901/a-personal-thank-you-from-paul-konerko

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:26 pm

Boilermaker Rick wrote:

http://score670.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=70074

You're getting better jimmy!

But Phil Rogers said that!

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

THE INQUISITOR wrote:

No one and I mean NO ONE could work the upstairs room at Hi-Tops like Grace...... talk about HoF moves... the guy was a SHARK before Jeff or CSFMB "Shark"

You partied with him huh?

jimmypasta · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:31 pm

Don Tiny wrote:

http://m.mlb.com/video/v36552901/a-personal-thank-you-from-paul-konerko

Big Deal!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBAHrMNKZ2I

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

DannyB wrote:

Shocking cumulative WAR discrepancy:

Grace: 45.6
Konerko: 25.0

Clutch factor:

Grace: +6.62
Konerko: -7.57

dWAR rears its ugly head

oWAR

37.9

33.3

The bad years at the beginning at end killed Paulie

KDdidit · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:57 pm

WAR is the greatest baseball stat of all time and thusly ends all discussions. Why should Grace be punished for being a multiple gold glove winner anyway.

rogers park bryan · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:16 pm **Posts:** 81625

KDdidit wrote:

WAR is the greatest baseball stat of all time and thusly ends all discussions. Why should Grace be punished for being a multiple gold glove winner anyway.

Ive long maintained that dWAR fucks it up and I prefer oWAR

But taking nothing away from Grace.

Grace might have been better in his time compared to his peers. Most of Graces career happened before the roid explosion

WestmontMike · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:06 pm

KDdidit wrote:

WAR is the greatest baseball stat of all time and thusly ends all discussions. Why should Grace be punished for being a multiple gold glove winner anyway.

One of the main reasons I liked Grace was his glove. If you can catch the stuff Dunston was throwing, you deserve a gold glove. But to put it in perspective, it's still just a gold glove at first base. It's a step up from a gold glove as a pitcher. Kind of like being voted the best offensive goalie in hockey.

bigfan · **Posted:** Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:47 pm

jimmypasta wrote:

:P

At what?

Grace was better than Konerko.

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