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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:15 am 
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Calling out Phil Emery for his failures on defense and on the Cutler extension. About fricking time. He is the problem and has to go. The guy is a like an annoying self-righteous uncle that you can't stand.

Usually Boers talks about Morrisey's articles and I'm hoping he devotes some time today to this one, because it's right on. Thank God Morrisey thinks that losing matters.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football ... alent.html


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:14 am 
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It's a decent article, but here's the one area where I do agree with Bernstein.

It's easy to say 'this guy was the wrong guy to get'. Yes, Houston hasn't been good so far. What about Willie Young? Looks to be the steal of the free agent signings so far. What about De La Puente and Ola?

Bernstein says this and I agree - 'ok, you don't like the guy they got - NAME the guy you wanted them to get?'.

There were very few quality D Ends available in free agency. Houston was at the top of that list and Emery got him. Would have loved to see him get Browner or Talib or TJ Ward, but there are 31 other teams in the NFL. You aren't going to get every guy you want.

Now, it's fair to criticize him for picks like Shea which didn't pan out and force you to have to go to the FA market, but every GM misses on picks.

DJ Williams - ok great. Name the other guys that were available that you'd rather have instead. Then, balance that against the cap and the other teams vying for the same player.

It's one thing to say 'draft pick - should have taken Chandler Jones over Shea'. Ok, fair. One can do that with EVERY draft, EVERY year. There were 32 GMS who had 3 chances to pick Russell Wilson before Seattle did in the 3rd round. It happens.

So, I'd like Morrissey to right a follow up. Consider the Bear's cap, consider other positions, consider what other teams are/were trying to do and NAME the player he'd prefer to have over Lamarr Houston and explain how that could have/would have happened.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:16 am 
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wow ruby.... since you made two identical theads at 5:05am and i slammed morrissey in the other one, i'll just copy and paste what i wrote there here for the sake of literary symmetry.

---

blow me, morrissey. mel tucker needs to go cuz the guy is unmitigated shit at calling a defensive game, coaching up players, etc. he inherited a good jaguars defense and turned it to shit. he inherited a really-way-more-old-than-we-thought bears DEF and promptly watched it turn to shit, and now we're gonna run phil emery out of town because he was busy fixing the offense and getting a line that will give you and the offense a chance.

and emery has a pass with me because when he got in here he realized "you know, this team needs a #1 WR. i know, let's go get jay's BFF" and that has been an unparalleled success in bears history because at the rate he's going if this ankle ever heals he'll get all the bears receiving records in short order until alshon possibly sticks around to take them at a later date.

maybe it's because he's black and as a society we don't wanna pile on a brother who tries, or maybe it's just to be edgy and contrarian.... but don't give me a column like WAAAHHHH EMERY SHOULD GO BEFORE MEL TUCKER. get the fuck out of here with that dumbass column, you idiot. go sell newspapers to.... people who need change for a $5 to get on a bus in 2mins because that's all i can figure your market is. everyone else who wants a newspaper gets the trib for a reason.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:17 am 
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550Spyder wrote:
It's a decent article, but here's the one area where I do agree with Bernstein.

It's easy to say 'this guy was the wrong guy to get'. Yes, Houston hasn't been good so far. What about Willie Young? Looks to be the steal of the free agent signings so far. What about De La Puente and Ola?

Bernstein says this and I agree - 'ok, you don't like the guy they got - NAME the guy you wanted them to get?'.

There were very few quality D Ends available in free agency. Houston was at the top of that list and Emery got him. Would have loved to see him get Browner or Talib or TJ Ward, but there are 31 other teams in the NFL. You aren't going to get every guy you want.

Now, it's fair to criticize him for picks like Shea which didn't pan out and force you to have to go to the FA market, but every GM misses on picks.

DJ Williams - ok great. Name the other guys that were available that you'd rather have instead. Then, balance that against the cap and the other teams vying for the same player.

It's one thing to say 'draft pick - should have taken Chandler Jones over Shea'. Ok, fair. One can do that with EVERY draft, EVERY year. There were 32 GMS who had 3 chances to pick Russell Wilson before Seattle did in the 3rd round. It happens.

So, I'd like Morrissey to right a follow up. Consider the Bear's cap, consider other positions, consider what other teams are/were trying to do and NAME the player he'd prefer to have over Lamarr Houston and explain how that could have/would have happened.



The problem I have is that it often goes beyond the simple stats, particularly for football. Contract, age, scheme, health, and chemistry are factors that make it hard to say (or easy to reject) one player over another. In the case of Houston I would suggest that the player he replaced, Wooton would have performed just as well. Emery stated that he always liked Houston and that perhaps was the deciding factor in not keeping Wooton and spending more to get Houston.

My problem with the article is that I keep seeing schematic breakdowns and deficiencies that tell me it would matter little the talent level as Tucker's players are either asked to do too much or are susceptible to getting beat because of the scheme's flaws (i.e., alignment, predictability of reaction, pursuit angles)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:27 am 
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No Clever Moniker wrote:
My problem with the article is that I keep seeing schematic breakdowns and deficiencies that tell me it would matter little the talent level as Tucker's players are either asked to do too much or are susceptible to getting beat because of the scheme's flaws (i.e., alignment, predictability of reaction, pursuit angles)


exactly this. and let's not forget that this is the bizarro-version of the lovie-bears where it was all focus on the defense and just hope you have a good enough offense and if you do hey rex grossman and thomas jones and the ghost of moose with a little... ok the best damn returner i've ever laid eyes on, well, that's enough to get you to a super bowl.... where you lose to a really good quarterback in the end.

it's almost diametrically opposite now, and when you've got a defense where you know it's pretty much going to be some level of suck you need to get a guy in here who can take wayward players and outcasts from other teams and band them together into something servieable. mel tucker is not that guy. we need a dave toub type for defense basically, and well special teams too while we're at it but hey that's part of the trestman experience, as when he was on his canadian football odyssey he kind of lost touch with the NFL football circles he wasn't ever really much of a part of (creepy guy over there mumbling to himself about quarterbacks status) so when he became a NFL head coach he didn't exactly get the picks of the litter in terms of coordinators/coaches/etc, and i reckon if/when the bears give him a 5-10 year run at the job that's something that will improve over time.

man if i were a young and hungry defensive coach and i saw what the bears offense could do and now they've got a GM with thoughts and a pulse, man, i'd want to show up and work a few miracles get a ring and then go on to be a head coach after said ring. that's for sure. i think they just didn't wanna shit-can good ol mel for last year since they tried to have him run a few miles literally in lovie smith's shoes, and yeah, this year is FINALLY his vision for defense.

and btw weren't we hearing talking points like phil emery was the REAL WINNER against SF and all that just 2-3 weeks ago? and now we should wanna run emery out of town because the defense sucks? wtf?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:33 am 
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sinicalypse wrote:
exactly this. and let's not forget that this is the bizarro-version of the lovie-bears where it was all focus on the defense and just hope you have a good enough offense and if you do hey rex grossman and thomas jones and the ghost of moose with a little... ok the best damn returner i've ever laid eyes on, well, that's enough to get you to a super bowl.... where you lose to a really good quarterback in the end.


I miss this version of the Bears. In a league where everything was/is about passing (and racking up pass interference), it was fun to watch the Bears excel at absolutely everything else except what they were supposed to do. It was sort of like watching a dog walk on its hind legs. One time the dog walked like half a mile.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:37 am 
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550Spyder wrote:
Bernstein says this and I agree - 'ok, you don't like the guy they got - NAME the guy you wanted them to get?'.



ANYONE. A. REPLACEMENT. LEVEL. PLAYER. This guy is worse than a replacement. Does dan only grasp that when the player in question is Derek Jeter?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:42 am 
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sinicalypse wrote:
wow ruby.... since you made two identical theads at 5:05am and i slammed morrissey in the other one, i'll just copy and paste what i wrote there here for the sake of literary symmetry.

---

blow me, morrissey. mel tucker needs to go cuz the guy is unmitigated shit at calling a defensive game, coaching up players, etc. he inherited a good jaguars defense and turned it to shit. he inherited a really-way-more-old-than-we-thought bears DEF and promptly watched it turn to shit, and now we're gonna run phil emery out of town because he was busy fixing the offense and getting a line that will give you and the offense a chance.

and emery has a pass with me because when he got in here he realized "you know, this team needs a #1 WR. i know, let's go get jay's BFF" and that has been an unparalleled success in bears history because at the rate he's going if this ankle ever heals he'll get all the bears receiving records in short order until alshon possibly sticks around to take them at a later date.

maybe it's because he's black and as a society we don't wanna pile on a brother who tries, or maybe it's just to be edgy and contrarian.... but don't give me a column like WAAAHHHH EMERY SHOULD GO BEFORE MEL TUCKER. get the fuck out of here with that dumbass column, you idiot. go sell newspapers to.... people who need change for a $5 to get on a bus in 2mins because that's all i can figure your market is. everyone else who wants a newspaper gets the trib for a reason.


Emery sucks period. His drafts have sucked. He got lucky with Jeffrey, but if you have as many draft picks as he has had in three years the odds are favorable that at least one guy can play. Kyle Long drafted as high as the Bears took him was not a good pick. Hub said as much. If you're taking someone that high, he should be an impact player, meaning he scores touchdowns, makes tackles or gets sacks. Long does none of that. Regarding the most recent draft, Big Doug is right that you don't draft 6 ft. tall defensive lineman. And you don't draft white guys with no position from Boise St. ever!!!!!

We only can judge Emery on the results, and the result after pouring millions into the defense in the off-season is that the defense is still terrible. No rush, no linebackers except Briggs maybe and no secondary. You give $30 million to Jared Allen at age 30, when the Vikings were not keen on keeping him? Duh, they must have known something, that Allen was done. What defensive lineman after age 30 is worth anything? That was pure stupidity, just like signing Cutler to a big contract extension when he has done nothing was stupidity. All he has to show for his career with the Bears is one lousy playoff game against an underwhelming Seattle team.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:49 am 
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sinicalypse wrote:
No Clever Moniker wrote:
My problem with the article is that I keep seeing schematic breakdowns and deficiencies that tell me it would matter little the talent level as Tucker's players are either asked to do too much or are susceptible to getting beat because of the scheme's flaws (i.e., alignment, predictability of reaction, pursuit angles)


exactly this. and let's not forget that this is the bizarro-version of the lovie-bears where it was all focus on the defense and just hope you have a good enough offense and if you do hey rex grossman and thomas jones and the ghost of moose with a little... ok the best damn returner i've ever laid eyes on, well, that's enough to get you to a super bowl.... where you lose to a really good quarterback in the end.

it's almost diametrically opposite now, and when you've got a defense where you know it's pretty much going to be some level of suck you need to get a guy in here who can take wayward players and outcasts from other teams and band them together into something servieable. mel tucker is not that guy. we need a dave toub type for defense basically, and well special teams too while we're at it but hey that's part of the trestman experience, as when he was on his canadian football odyssey he kind of lost touch with the NFL football circles he wasn't ever really much of a part of (creepy guy over there mumbling to himself about quarterbacks status) so when he became a NFL head coach he didn't exactly get the picks of the litter in terms of coordinators/coaches/etc, and i reckon if/when the bears give him a 5-10 year run at the job that's something that will improve over time.

man if i were a young and hungry defensive coach and i saw what the bears offense could do and now they've got a GM with thoughts and a pulse, man, i'd want to show up and work a few miracles get a ring and then go on to be a head coach after said ring. that's for sure. i think they just didn't wanna shit-can good ol mel for last year since they tried to have him run a few miles literally in lovie smith's shoes, and yeah, this year is FINALLY his vision for defense.

and btw weren't we hearing talking points like phil emery was the REAL WINNER against SF and all that just 2-3 weeks ago? and now we should wanna run emery out of town because the defense sucks? wtf?


In defense of Tucker, he had a good game plan against SF. Then he tried to do what Detroit did against Rodgers, dropping 7 back and rushing 4, but it didn't work because the front four could put no pressure on Rodgers. But at least his strategy was logical in trying to follow something that worked against Rodgers. He can only play the cards he's been dealt.

Even Ditka looked like a genius with the talent on the '85 team.


Last edited by Dignified Rube on Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:53 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I miss this version of the Bears. In a league where everything was/is about passing (and racking up pass interference), it was fun to watch the Bears excel at absolutely everything else except what they were supposed to do. It was sort of like watching a dog walk on its hind legs. One time the dog walked like half a mile.


in honor of lovie smith i raise my cigarette-n-gatorade combo in the air and uhhh i think after this post my other hand will be free for a lighter.

i can't wait for the lovie bowl this year. do you have any idea how badly cutler is gonna wanna stick it to him? i hope he's there. mccown too. bobby rainey (assuming "muscle hamster" is hurt again by then) and the whole gang who i strangely can't name.... oh wait they still have vincent jackson right? there we go we're up to 3 bucs players. i think mike williams is on buffalo or something now. idk.

it's like seeing an old girlfriend going out with some schlub who's got "job security" and "stability" that she brags about while you're like "yeah but i bet he's fucked you at least once right under the set of CTA L-car system maps i gave you"

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:55 am 
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Dignified Rube wrote:
In defense of Tucker, he had a good game plan against SF.


yeah that whole part of the game plan where he got the niners to start colin kaepertwink at quarterback was fucking brilliant. remember early in the game when the niners were gashing the bears for 15-25yds like nobody's business and kaepernick was STILL throwing those balls to them high and wide so they had to lunge jump and dive just to catch a ball while nobody was within 5-10 yards of them?

yeah. that part of the gameplan was brilliant, i will definitely give mel that one.

and i like to think somewhere martz saw marshall's 3TD receptions that night and thought "that's not how you do it! he's too big and slow. where's my guy manemanuseless?"

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:56 am 
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550Spyder wrote:


Now, it's fair to criticize him for picks like Shea which didn't pan out and force you to have to go to the FA market, but every GM misses on picks.


But Emery missed on EVERY pick in his first draft. And his second draft doesn't look so good either.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:02 am 
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sinicalypse wrote:
Dignified Rube wrote:
In defense of Tucker, he had a good game plan against SF.


yeah that whole part of the game plan where he got the niners to start colin kaepertwink at quarterback was fucking brilliant. remember early in the game when the niners were gashing the bears for 15-25yds like nobody's business and kaepernick was STILL throwing those balls to them high and wide so they had to lunge jump and dive just to catch a ball while nobody was within 5-10 yards of them?

yeah. that part of the gameplan was brilliant, i will definitely give mel that one.

and i like to think somewhere martz saw marshall's 3TD receptions that night and thought "that's not how you do it! he's too big and slow. where's my guy manemanuseless?"


The defense did force 4 turnovers and firmed in the second half. How else do you explain that, if not game plan and adjustments?

As good as you say the 49ers were, they only scored 20.


Last edited by Dignified Rube on Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:09 am 
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Dignified Rube wrote:
The defense did force 4 turnovers and firmed in the second half. How else to you explain that, if not game plan and adjustments?

As good as you say the 49ers were, they only scored 20.


where did i say the 49ers were good? was it the part where i mocked their "franchise quarterback" for his inability to hit WIDE FUCKING OPEN receivers in such a way that they were able to turn upfield and turn 15-25yd gashes into 40+ yd explode-on-impact-bullets-from-tiennenaman-square. aaron rodgers was able to do that and look how that turned out when the bears offense couldn't keep up in the 2nd half. that game was either gonna be 41-38 or 38-17 and well you got what you got.

in fact, one of my joys of the 2014-15 NFL season is going to be watching the 49ers fail yet again with that little shit @ QB if anything just cuz i know scorehead is out there drinking to soothe his damaged soul cuz his boy HAR-BOW has failed yet again despite being the obvious LIGHT AND THE WAY FOR THE BEARS ALL ALONG.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:10 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
550Spyder wrote:


Now, it's fair to criticize him for picks like Shea which didn't pan out and force you to have to go to the FA market, but every GM misses on picks.


But Emery missed on EVERY pick in his first draft. And his second draft doesn't look so good either.


I thought 2012 was his first draft ... I don't think he missed on Alshon.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:13 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
I thought 2012 was his first draft ... I don't think he missed on Alshon.


it's hard to miss alshon because he's big and black and with the white receiving gloves martellus calls him mickey mouse. plus when you're driving by lane kiffin's gas station and you see a big 6'4"ish black guy pumping gas and you get over the shock of a modern full service gas station in the year of our lord 2012, yeah, you get that big stooge to go out there next to our big #1 WR and do some things with jay. it's not rocket science..... but evidently it's not quite shea mcclellin either.

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Last edited by sinicalypse on Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:14 am 
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Lest anyone be confused, Emery just sucks out loud at drafting NFL players.


2012
Round 1, Pick 19: Shea McClellin
Round 2, Pick 45: Alshon Jeffery
Round 3, Pick 79: Brandon Hardin
Round 4, Pick 111: Evan Rodriguez
Round 6, Pick 184: Isaiah Frey
Round 7, Pick 220: Greg Mccoy


2013
Round 1, PICK 20: Kyle Long
Round 2, Pick 50: Jonathan Bostic
Round 4, Pick 117: Khaseem Greene
Round 5, Pick 163: Jordan Mills
Round 6, Pick 188: Cornelius Washington
Round 7, Pick 236: Marquess Wilson


2014
1st Round, 14th Overall: Kyle Fuller
2nd Round, 51st Overall: Ego Ferguson
3rd Round, 82nd Overall: Will Sutton
4th Round, 117th Overall: Ka'Deem Carey
Bears Trade 2014 and 2015 Fifth-Round Picks, Select Brock Vereen with 131st Pick
6th Round, 183rd Overall: David Fales, Quarterback
6th Round, 191st Overall: Pat O'Donnell
7th Round, 246th Overall: Charles Leno, Jr.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:15 am 
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was there an official bears fan clarion call to stop liking kyle long that i missed?

i mean i dunno call me old fashioned but shea notwithstanding he sure hasn't seemed to have fucked up the "big" picks, now has he? i see at least one bonafide player in all of those draft classes.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:16 am 
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The scary part is that the draft is supposed to be Emery's best work. Isn't he basically a glorified scout?

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I see Alshon as an all-pro receiver. I see a barely-above-average Long. I see a number of "m'eh, whatever". And I see a shit-ton of "why bother going to the microphone".

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:23 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
The scary part is that the draft is supposed to be Emery's best work. Isn't he basically a glorified scout?


Emery was a scout for the Bears from 1998 to 2004, serving head coach Lovie Smith. After this, he was a director of scouting for the Atlanta Falcons from 2004 to 2008 and the Kansas City Chiefs from 2008 to 2011. Prior to the Bears job, he was a strength and conditioning coach at several colleges ...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:23 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
I see Alshon as an all-pro receiver. I see a barely-above-average Long. I see a number of "m'eh, whatever". And I see a shit-ton of "why bother going to the microphone".


welcome to the NFL draft. for all of those times you can cite those legendary bears drafts of the late 70s / early 80s i'm sure you can go find a bunch of laughable shit mixed in there that flares up more often than not some years and less the others.

it's almost like human beings play this sport instead of rick telander's robots. scary thought, i know but trust me we've got bernstein working on it so don't worry about it.

remember that bears first round draft pick who likes turtles and animals and shit? whats his name.... michael haynes! yeah that's right! "one of the good ones" for sure, dan gave him his approval..... not quite the ultraback but then again not many are. but yeah, how'd that go?

shit happens man. just get me a good useful player who i can build a winning team around in every draft (and in my football universe you're exempted for shea in rd1 by getting alshon jeffery in round 2) and i'll take my chances that some of the other guys pan out and some of the guys go on to be the future leon johnsons of the NFL somewhere else after a rookie contract full of suck.

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The pick-6 was Kapernick's first throw and it was very poor as Mundy was the closest to catching it. Fuller's endzone interception was a great play on his part. That's 14 points of scoring (7 returned, 7 denied) that was the critical difference.

A defense that can't force one punt is a result of poor scheme, execution, and yes, talent.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:29 am 
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Don Tiny wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
550Spyder wrote:


Now, it's fair to criticize him for picks like Shea which didn't pan out and force you to have to go to the FA market, but every GM misses on picks.


But Emery missed on EVERY pick in his first draft. And his second draft doesn't look so good either.


I thought 2012 was his first draft ... I don't think he missed on Alshon.


That's right.

And yeah, Emery appears to suck at the draft.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:30 am 
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I think Kyle Fuller will be a good player. Not sure about Sutton and Ferguson.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:37 am 
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Tall Midget wrote:
550Spyder wrote:


Now, it's fair to criticize him for picks like Shea which didn't pan out and force you to have to go to the FA market, but every GM misses on picks.


But Emery missed on EVERY pick in his first draft. And his second draft doesn't look so good either.


He got Jeffrey in that draft, which is no small thing. If you get a Pro Bowl player out of each draft, as Emery has done so far, you are doing something correctly. The problem is that you need to get some depth in each draft as well, which he has not done

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:39 am 
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Emery's first draft was not a good one.

Over the last two seasons, he's drafted two starters each draft at positions of need - OL in '13 and Corner and Punter in '14. Add to that, Bostic is a period starter (should be starting over Shea) and Ferguson/Sutton may see starting time in their futures.

I can't fault a guy who drafts starters at position of need.

As for 'draft guys in the first who make tackles, catch balls, etc' - umm, a lot of O-Lineman go in the first round. Pro-bowl caliber O line man can play 15 years in the league. It's a smart pick. Hell, the #1 pick in the 2013 draft was a O-lineman. The #2 pick in this year's draft was also.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 11:50 am 
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http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=OL&type=position

Every OL ever taken in the draft, by year, by position, by team, by college, by cracky.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:07 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
550Spyder wrote:


Now, it's fair to criticize him for picks like Shea which didn't pan out and force you to have to go to the FA market, but every GM misses on picks.


But Emery missed on EVERY pick in his first draft. And his second draft doesn't look so good either.


He got Jeffrey in that draft, which is no small thing. If you get a Pro Bowl player out of each draft, as Emery has done so far, you are doing something correctly. The problem is that you need to get some depth in each draft as well, which he has not done


Kyle Long hasn't looked like a Pro Bowler so far this year. Mills is just a guy. And the rest of that second draft seems to be a failure.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:09 pm 
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Emery's first draft was horrible and his second draft appears to be trending in that direction. Too early to tell on the third. Fuller and Sutton seem to be the best hopes there.

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