Just because you hijacked JORR's thread and made your own dumb rules doesn't mean that the ultimate question of the thread wasn't "Do you believe in Theo's plan?".

Your question is flat out stupid. Of course there is more than one way to do a rebuild. The answer should be 100% No based on your dumb criteria. The Cubs could have spent $200 million in a season and have rebuilt. The Cubs could have traded young talent in the system at the time that Theo got here and been able to rebuild.

Stop with calling me a liar.

The fact is the thread was asking "Do you believe in Theo's plan?" and your answer is that 80% of Cubs fans do not. I'm going to post that until you take it back

So, here is your last chance. I will forever cite this number as to not be "lying". The question is clear and concise. If you don't give me a number I will assume your answer is 80%.

What is the percentage of Cubs fans that do not believe in Theo's plan?

80% of Cubs fans don't believe in the plan.

I never said 80% of Cub fans dont believe in the plan.

The fact is the thread was asking "Do you believe in Theo's plan?" and your answer is that 80% of Cubs fans do not.

This is false.

The poll was about preferring the plan over other methods...or if you think the plan is taking too long.

This is false.

The poll was about preferring the plan over other methods...or if you think the plan is taking too long.

But "the plan" as a strategy...that is a different story. Concerted efforts toward complete rebuilds have a fairly high success rate in many sports. I think many Cubs fans, even the upset ones, understand that there is a return on the horizon. It just may be 2016 instead of 2014, to the dismay of folks that were overly optimistic.

But every fan will be able to look at the frustration via a rear view mirror when the winning occurs.

I think a good percentage of Cub fans believe in Theo's plan

What is a good percentage?

The crisis consists precisely in the fact that the old is dying and the new cannot be born; in this interregnum a great variety of morbid symptoms appear.

What is a good percentage?

That's utterly ridiculous. It's not a minority of Cub fans that are on board with the lengthy losing on purpose. It's not a minority of Cub fans on this board. You're being silly. You can hear Cub fans on the radio everyday cheering a new creation called "tank wins". You can read posts about how this is "the right way". You're the minority.

Kyle Schwarber ripped a double and an RBI single and scored a run, Charlie White belted an RBI triple and a single and scored a run, and Mark Zagunis singled twice, scored a run, drove-in another, and stole a base, in an AZ Instructional League Cubs intrasquad game played this morning on Field #1 at the Under Armour Performance Center at Riverview Park in Mesa, AZ.

Trevor Clifton and three relievers combined to toss a three-hit shut out, as Team Johnson blanked Team Gonzalez 7-0 to take a 2-0 lead in the "Cubs World Series."

For some reason, Cubs coaches wanted Scott Frazier to face only LH hitters in his one inning of work, so the lineup was adjusted to accomodate the plan. Frazier has what some in the Cub organization believe to be the best pure stuff in the system, but the big right-hander from Pepperdine has struggled to throw strikes going all the way back to Minor League Camp in March. The Cubs have tried almost everything to try and fix the problem, with facing only LH hitters being the latest attempt.

Here is the box score from today's game:

TEAM GONZALEZ LINEUP:
1. Charcer Burks, CF: 1-2 (K, 2B, BB)
2. Andrew Ely, 2B: 0-3 (K, K, 4-6 FC)
3. Billy McKinney, DH: 0-3 (F-7, K, K)
4. Victor Caratini, C: 0-3 (5-3, 4-3, F-8)
5. Jordan Hankins, 1B: 0-1 (BB, BB, L-8)
6. Kevonte Mitchell, LF: 1-3 (F-9, 1B, 5-3)
7. Eloy Jimenez, RF: 0-3 (K, P-3, F-8)
9. Wladimir Galindo, 3B: 1-3 (F-8, 1B, F-8)
9. Jason Vosler, SS: 0-2 (6-3, F-8)

TEAM JOHNSON LINEUP:
1. Rashad Crawford, CF: 1-4 (K, K, 1B, K, R, RBI, SB)
2. Chesny Young, 2B: 1-2 (6-3, 1B, BB, R, RBI)
NOTE: SLOT WAS SKIPPED FIRST TIME THRU BATTING ORDER
3. Jeimer Candelario, 3B: 1-4 (4-3, L-8, L-9, 1B, R)
4. Kyle Schwarber, DH: 2-4 (2B, F-8, 6-3, 1B, R, RBI)
5. Mark Zagunis, C: 2-3 (K, 1B, 1B, R, RBI, SB)
NOTE: SLOT WAS SKIPPED FIRST TIME THRU BATTING ORDER
6. Kevin Encarnacion, RF: 1-2 (1B, K, 1-3 SH, RBI)
7. Tyler Alamo, 1B: 1-1 (1B, F-8 SF, R, RBI)
NOTE: SLOT WAS SKIPPED FIRST TIME THRU BATTING ORDER
8. Frandy de la Rosa, SS: 0-2 (5-3, 5-3 SH, 4-3)
9. Charlie White, LF: 2-2 (3B, 1B, R, RBI, CS)
NOTE: SLOT WAS SKIPPED FIRST TIME THRU BATTING ORDER

TEAM GONZALEZ PITCHERS:
1. Scott Frazier: 1.0 IP, 2 H, 1 R (1 ER), 0 BB, 1 K, 2/0 GO/FO, 18 pitches (11 strikes)
2. Josh Conway: 2.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 3 K, 1/2 GO/FO, 21 pitches (14 strikes)
3. Justin Steele: 2.0 IP, 5 H, 4 R (4 ER), 0 BB, 0 K, 4/2 GO/FO, 39 pitches (28 strikes)
4. Tommy Thorpe: 1.0 IP, 4 H, 2 R (2 ER), 1 BB, 1 K, 1 WP, 25 pitches (15 strikes)

TEAM JOHNSON PITCHERS:
1. Trevor Clifton: 2.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 3 K, 1/2 GO/FO, 31 pitches (19 strikes)
2. James Norwood: 2.0 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 2 K, 2/1 GO/FO, 40 pitches (26 strikes)
3. David Garner: 2.0 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 1 K, 1/4 GO/FO, 34 pitches (16 strikes)
4. Daniel Lewis: 1.0 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 0 K, 1/2 GO/FO, 9 pitches (5 strikes)

TEAM GONZALEZ ERRORS: NONE

TEAM JOHNSON ERRORS: NONE

TEAM GONZALEZ CATCHERS DEFENSE:
Victor Caratini: 1-2 CS

TEAM JOHNSON OUTFIELD ASSISTS:
RF Kevin Encarnacion - threw out baseunner 9-5 trying to advance from 1st to 3rd on single

ATTENDANCE: 21 (mostly scouts)

WEATHER: Partly cloudy with temperatures in the 80's

Finally. Thank you. 75% of Cubs fans believe in Theo's plan!

You're not going to acknowledge the other part of the post that shows why the question changed and there was confusion?

Any response would be "You are a liar!" so I am backing out. I hope you understand.

I have to say the second part because JORR (and others) have posited that most Cub fans believe losing is the only/right way to rebuild

supported by compelling evidence that JORR (and others) are correct

Only if you were lying

If you said "Oh, I guess I misunderstood what you were saying even though you explained it several times" I wouldnt call you a liar.


Its ok. Its very clear that's what happened.

But "the plan" as a strategy...that is a different story. Concerted efforts toward complete rebuilds have a fairly high success rate in many sports. I think many Cubs fans, even the upset ones, understand that there is a return on the horizon. It just may be 2016 instead of 2014, to the dismay of folks that were overly optimistic.

Rick thinks you are dumb to even suggest that.

I disagree with you.

You concentrated so heavily on the "It took too long" part that it undermined the whole argument. As it stands today, according to you 75% of Cubs fans still believe in Theo's plan even knowing the length of time that it took.

Now you are the liar!

.

Your question is flat out stupid. Of course there is more than one way to do a rebuild. The answer should be 100% No based on your dumb criteria. The Cubs could have spent $200 million in a season and have rebuilt. The Cubs could have traded young talent in the system at the time that Theo got here and been able to rebuild.

It just may be 2016 instead of 2014, to the dismay of folks that were overly optimistic.

I have to say the second part because JORR (and others) have posited that most Cub fans believe losing is the only/right way to rebuild

No. I'm just being logical. A key component of The Plan is losing. You can't say "I love The Plan except for the losing." That's like saying I love everything about Christianity except the Jesus part.

Rick thinks you are dumb to even suggest that.

I disagree with you.

Bad analogy

I like rebuilding the minors which is the primary goal of the plan. The losing is a means that I dont condone that will eventually likely get to an end Im in favor of.

Its like if you said you wanted a new car, so I destroyed yours forcing you to buy a new one.


And then posted a poll "For JORR ONLY, are you in favor of getting a new car?"

Let me put it more simply. If you don't support the losing, you don't support The Plan.

80% of Cubs fans think the plan was a mistake. That is exactly what rpb is saying.

Expecting to try and win by year 3 of a regime is not overly optimistic. Its being realistic