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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:24 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
There are other good ones


Stay out of the way, dont give away outs and handle the bullpen correctly. That's all im looking for.

What does handle the bullpen correctly mean?

Don't leave in Choatee to face a right hander in an important playoff game...

It is a tie game in extra innings, how many relievers are you going to go thru?

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:24 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
There are other good ones


Stay out of the way, dont give away outs and handle the bullpen correctly. That's all im looking for.

What does handle the bullpen correctly mean?

I don't how to explain that further.

Pull the starter at the correct time. Use the bullpen guys in the right spots.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:25 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
There are other good ones


Stay out of the way, dont give away outs and handle the bullpen correctly. That's all im looking for.

What does handle the bullpen correctly mean?

I don't how to explain that further.

Pull the starter at the correct time. Use the bullpen guys in the right spots.

When is the correct time to pull the starter, and how many days in a row do you use those bullpen guys in those right spots?

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:28 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
RFDC wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
There are other good ones


Stay out of the way, dont give away outs and handle the bullpen correctly. That's all im looking for.

What does handle the bullpen correctly mean?

Don't leave in Choatee to face a right hander in an important playoff game...

It is a tie game in extra innings, how many relievers are you going to go thru?

I understand.

But the guy was brought in to face a lefty and he walks him. There is no reason to have him pitch to a right hander when you had Martinez ready in the pen.

I am glad they did it, but it was completely stupid.

Matheny is very Ventura like.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:30 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
There are other good ones


Stay out of the way, dont give away outs and handle the bullpen correctly. That's all im looking for.

What does handle the bullpen correctly mean?

I don't how to explain that further.

Pull the starter at the correct time. Use the bullpen guys in the right spots.

When is the correct time to pull the starter, and how many days in a row do you use those bullpen guys in those right spots?

Right before the starter is going to lose it

As many days in a row as possible


Is there a point here, Hawg?

Yost sucks and managing is all about the talent on the roster and not fucking up.

I understand you disagree


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:35 am 
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Ned Yost's Questionable Decisions Keep Coming Up Roses in ALCS
By Zachary D. Rymer , MLB Lead Writer Oct 14, 2014



There was a point during the American League Wild Card Game that Ned Yost was crowned King Bonehead of Manager Earth, with his punishment being eternal mockery.

But then his Kansas City Royals stormed back to beat the Oakland A's. Then they swept the 98-win Los Angeles Angels in the division series. Now they hold a 2-0 lead over the Baltimore Orioles in the championship series that puts them just two wins away from the World Series.

The way things are going, it feels like the only thing separating Yost's Royals from a 3-0 lead in the ALCS is Monday night's rainout of Game 3. With a 6-0 postseason record to his name, Yost can do no wrong.

Or so it seems based on appearances, anyway. But in reality? Eh...Maybe not.

As much it might seem like he has, Yost hasn't quit making the kind of decisions that invite #Yosted to appear on Twitter. He made them against the A's, he made them against the Angels, and he's now making them against the Orioles.

So how are Yost's Royals still standing? It's complicated, but here's one reason: The Kansas City skipper's #Yosted low point has already come and gone.

Charlie Riedel/Associated Press
That came in the AL Wild Card Game. Between a doomed double steal and four sacrifice bunts, Yost gifted the A's five outs. In asking young starting pitcher Yordano Ventura to do a reliever's work, he also gifted them three runs. Though the Royals won 9-8, Yost did everything in his power to make them lose.

In referring specifically to the Ventura move, pitching god-turned TBS analyst Pedro Martinez had the right idea about what would have become of Yost if the Royals had lost:


Not just the goat. The ugly goat. That's a whole 'nother level of goat.

That the Royals survived and saved Yost from that fate was the bright side. The not-so-bright side was that they weren't going to last much longer if he continued to push his luck to such an absurd degree.

Fortunately, there's the reason why Yost's #Yosted low point is in the past: Comparatively speaking, his luck pushing has actually toned down quite a bit.

And because it has, maybe we shouldn't be surprised that every button he's pushed since the AL Wild Card Game has felt like the right one. Or, at the least, not the wrong one.



ALDS Games 1, 2 and 3

It almost says it all that Yost called for only one sac bunt in Kansas City's three-game sweep of the Angels in the ALDS. Outside of that, he only made a couple of iffy pitching decisions.

One was choosing to let Jason Vargas face Mike Trout, Albert Pujols and Howie Kendrick for a third time in a pressure-packed sixth inning in Game 1. Thanks to Norichika Aoki's circus catch, a questionable decision was made to look like the right decision.



Courtesy of MLB Advanced Media via MLB.com.
Then there was the Greg Holland conundrum. Yost had chances to bring his hard-throwing closer into tie games late in Games 1 and 2, thereby prioritizing the lead the Royals didn't have over the lead they might have. By trusting lesser relievers to keep the Angels from walking off, he was rolling the dice.

Inevitably, he rolled true both times. Thanks to solid relief work and clutch dingers from Mike Moustakas and Eric Hosmer, twice preserving Holland for the save worked out fine.

That set the stage for a drama-less Game 3. A three-run double by Alex Gordon and dingers by Hosmer and Moustakas led the charge to a series-clinching 8-3 win, in which Yost was saved from having to make any controversial decisions.

As such, he had extras in his pocket for the ALCS. And while he's used a couple of them, the ones he has made fall under the same umbrella as the ones he made in the ALDS: not too bad and ultimately harmless.



ALCS Game 1

Yost's first real spot of bother in the ALCS came in the fifth inning of Game 1 when the Orioles started getting to staff ace James Shields.

With two outs, the bases loaded and the Royals clinging to a 5-2 lead, something of a Vargas situation confronted Yost when the lefty-swinging Ryan Flaherty strode to the plate. Yost could have called in the lefty-throwing Brandon Finnegan to exploit Flaherty's platoon split for the third out.

Instead, he struck with Shields and watched a two-run single turn a 5-2 lead into a 5-4 lead.


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That could have been a regrettable decision. Same goes for the bunts Yost called for in the ninth inning with the score tied 5-5. In asking first Jarrod Dyson and then Lorenzo Cain to bunt against a clearly wild Zach Britton, Yost twice tried to give a pitcher who couldn't find the plate a free out.

Thanks to Gordon and Moustakas, however, none of this ended up mattering.

Their dingers in the 10th turned a 5-5 tie into an 8-5 lead and, ultimately, an 8-6 win that gave the Royals a 1-0 series lead and further boosted Yost's postseason profile heading into Game 2.

And in Game 2...



ALCS Game 2

In keeping with a general theme, Yost played with fire in Game 2 when he chose to stick with a struggling starter longer than he should have. This time, it was Ventura's turn.

Lifting Ventura, whose command was off from the start, in the fifth inning could have prevented the Orioles from erasing a 4-3 Royals lead. Lifting him then might also have prevented him from developing the shoulder tightness that forced him from the game in the sixth.

Fortunately, the word on Ventura is that tightness is water under the bridge. And in the end, it was thanks to a bunt that him giving up the lead also became an afterthought.

In the top of the ninth inning, the score was 4-4 with Britton on the mound, Omar Infante at first base and Moustakas at the plate. Yost called for him to lay one down, thereby taking the bat out of the Royals' leading postseason home run hitter's hands.

Or course, it worked out. Moustakas' bunt got the speedy Terrance Gore to second base, and Alcides Escobar's double brought him home for a 5-4 lead. After another run was tacked on, Holland came in to wrap up a 6-4 win.


All of this leaves us standing on a precipice from which to compare what could have happened under Yost's watch to what did happen under his watch.

The list of things that fall under the former category includes Yost's bungling of the AL Wild Card Game barring the Royals from proper October baseball. Elsewhere, it includes decisions in four other games that could have meant L's for the Royals instead of W's.

What did happen, of course, was that the Royals pulled off an improbable win against the A's and have gone on to win every game since, putting Yost in a position to be regarded as a mad genius.

Which begs the question: Is Yost smarter than he gets credit for, or is he just lucky?

The answer is the same one that applies to pretty much all managers who win in October: a little bit of both.

It has indeed taken some good fortune to build Yost's 6-0 postseason record. That the Royals haven't been beaten by any of his iffy decisions is part of it, but the bigger part of it has to do with him benefiting from the Royals' unexpected new toy: power.

After hitting only 95 home runs in the regular season, the Royals have hit eight in six postseason games. And so far, they've won only one game in which they didn't homer: that crazy Wild Card Game.

Royals Power: Regular Season vs. Postseason
Split HR/G % Runs from HR Isolated Power
Regular Season 0.6 23.5 .113
Postseason 1.3 28.9 .159
Baseball-Reference.com

More than anything, this power is why Yost was absolutely right when he said (via HardballTalk) after Game 2: "They're playing their best baseball of the year right now, and it's sure the best time to play it."

This is not to say that Yost has done nothing to help. It's a lot easier to notice and nitpick his questionable decisions, but he's made some good ones too.

Compared to the first three postseason games, Yost's bullpen management in Games 1 and 2 of the ALCS has been quite good. Particularly his aggressive use of Kelvin Herrera and Wade Davis in Game 1.

Also, the one bunt Yost has called for in the ALCS was perfectly defensible. In the words of Grantland's Ben Lindbergh:


One good bunt doesn't absolve Yost of so many bad bunts. Likewise, a couple good pitching maneuvers doesn't absolve him of so many risky ones.

But after watching him try to sabotage his own team in the AL Wild Card Game, Yost is beginning to look less and less like an ugly goat. He's gone from being a stick in the Royals' gears to being a much steadier guiding hand at the wheel of a Cinderella team, one that's been tons of fun to watch.

So let's end this thing with a blatant Simpsons rip-off: A Toast to the Yos
t Who Can Boast the Most.


Last edited by rogers park bryan on Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:37 am 
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My point is there is no science to managing a bullpen, there are kinds of variables that come up each and every day. I don't think people realized just how hard it is to make those decisions and Yost does not suck. If he sucked so bad as you say, why did he get a 2nd chance? Also, do you realized just how bad some of those Brewers teams were that he managed, just god awful. He had nothing to do with it.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:41 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
My point is there is no science to managing a bullpen, there are kinds of variables that come up each and every day.

And its a managers job to....manage it


Hawg Ass wrote:
I don't think people realized just how hard it is to make those decisions and Yost does not suck.

Many people realize how hard it is. Yost sucks for sure. He makes decisions that make no sense


Hawg Ass wrote:
If he sucked so bad as you say, why did he get a 2nd chance? Also, do you realized just how bad some of those Brewers teams were that he managed, just god awful. He had nothing to do with it.

A lot of terrible managers get second, third and 4th chances


The year he got fired, that team was good. They should have won the division going away. Yost had a HUGE hand in them blowing that lead


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:42 am 
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Almost forgot about this


Yost's managing came under fire late in 2007.[5] During the 2007 season, the Brewers held an 8-1/2 game division lead over the Cubs by June 23 but failed to hold on to the advantage, finishing 2 games behind the Cubs. Yost's bullpen management, lineup strategies, and bench management were blamed. He also was thrown out of three games in the last week of the season, leading some reporters to question his ability to handle the pressure.


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:43 am 
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Have a good day, I don't have time to do this all day.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:45 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
Have a good day, I don't have time to do this all day.

Uh ok. I apologize for disagreeing with you and backing it up with sources.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:47 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Have a good day, I don't have time to do this all day.

Uh ok. I apologize for disagreeing with you and backing it up with sources.

Um, there are all kind of sources and I could find things that would back the other side, not real hard or doesn't prove a damn thing.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:49 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Have a good day, I don't have time to do this all day.

Uh ok. I apologize for disagreeing with you and backing it up with sources.

Um, there are all kind of sources and I could find things that would back the other side, not real hard or doesn't prove a damn thing.

no you couldnt

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:53 am 
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/7664 ... ory/page/5

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:53 am 
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RFDC wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Have a good day, I don't have time to do this all day.

Uh ok. I apologize for disagreeing with you and backing it up with sources.

Um, there are all kind of sources and I could find things that would back the other side, not real hard or doesn't prove a damn thing.

no you couldnt

Ok

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:58 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Have a good day, I don't have time to do this all day.

Uh ok. I apologize for disagreeing with you and backing it up with sources.

Um, there are all kind of sources and I could find things that would back the other side, not real hard or doesn't prove a damn thing.

Im not saying you couldn't

Im wondering why you're seemingly upset that Im disagreeing with you. Did you expect me to change my opinion that Ive formed from watching the guy for years?


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:59 am 
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it is a bad day for Wisconsin peeps.

TBone is pissed off.

Hawg is pissed off.

You would think the Packers lost today

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:01 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Have a good day, I don't have time to do this all day.

Uh ok. I apologize for disagreeing with you and backing it up with sources.

Um, there are all kind of sources and I could find things that would back the other side, not real hard or doesn't prove a damn thing.

Im not saying you couldn't

Im wondering why you're seemingly upset that Im disagreeing with you. Did you expect me to change my opinion that Ive formed from watching the guy for years?

Not at all.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:05 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
it is a bad day for Wisconsin peeps.

TBone is pissed off.

Hawg is pissed off.

You would think the Packers lost today

Doesn't Ike live in WI?

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:07 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
My point is there is no science to managing a bullpen
Try telling that to Matt Williams.

RFDC wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Um, there are all kind of sources and I could find things that would back the other side, not real hard or doesn't prove a damn thing.
no you couldnt
Yost's team is one of four MLB teams currently still playing. His team also hasn't lot a game since the White Sox beat them on September 27th. I would say that is a pretty good source.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:14 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
Ike lives in Fantasyland.


Hawg Ass wrote:
My point is there is no science to managing a bullpen
Try telling that to Matt Williams.

RFDC wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
Um, there are all kind of sources and I could find things that would back the other side, not real hard or doesn't prove a damn thing.
no you couldnt
Yost's team is one of four MLB teams currently still playing. His team also hasn't lot a game since the White Sox beat them on September 27th. I would say that is a pretty good source.

They're winning despite the poor decisions of their manager.

Its detailed pretty well in that Bleacher Report article.


Also, many bad managers have made it to LCS and even World Series. Sometimes the talent is enough on its own.


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:34 pm 
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Yep, just ask RPB.















:D

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:47 pm 
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Brilliant move by Yost to have Escobar hit the ball off third base to start a rally


Last edited by rogers park bryan on Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:51 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Brilliant move by Yost to have Escobar hit the ball of third base to start a rally

I knew you would come around.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:56 pm 
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I didn't realize a baseball game occurred until WWN shoutout. If it's already been explained could some rehash why games aren't on prime time?


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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:04 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:10 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Hawg Ass wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
There are other good ones


Stay out of the way, dont give away outs and handle the bullpen correctly. That's all im looking for.

What does handle the bullpen correctly mean?

I don't how to explain that further.

Pull the starter at the correct time. Use the bullpen guys in the right spots.

When is the correct time to pull the starter, and how many days in a row do you use those bullpen guys in those right spots?


In the playoffs the correct time to pull a starter is early and often. On a per inning basis good relievers are much more effective than good starters. During the regular season a team is built for the rigors of a 162 game schedule, so you have bullpen roles and starters that are expected to eat innings to save the rest of the pitchers for the long haul. In the post season every pitch matters more because you are that much closer to winning or going home.

For instance if James Shields loads the bases in the 4th inning in an playoff game you pull him and put in Greg Holland because that is the point in the game that you are most likely to loose (a high leverage situation) and Holland is more likely to get out of it unscathed than Shields is. Basically, you use your most effective guy when it matters the most because there's no point to save him for tomorrow, or even later in the game for that matter.

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Last edited by MajorKong on Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:11 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
I didn't realize a baseball game occurred until WWN shoutout. If it's already been explained could some rehash why games aren't on prime time?


They put them on after school for the kids? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 2014 MLB Postseason
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:29 pm 
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