great idea, assholes.



States Ease Laws That Protected Poor Borrowers

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ ... ar-BBawlZQ

so basically they are saying they are not raking in enough money to ruin the worlds economy for their own benefit (again). im getting really sick of this shit. hardly anyone is making what they deserve, and most are not making enough to have a decent retirement (assuming a decent retirement is a luxury, when it used to be expected).

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Someone should do something about this stuff, anyone know anybody?

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

Ike, if you go into a store to buy a shirt, and the shirt is priced too high, what do you? You probably look elsewhere. Every commercial transaction requires a willing buyer and seller.

If someone offers you a loan at 31%, there is nothing that says you have to accept it. I guess you just prefer the warm blanket of government protection because you are too naive to enter into a commercial relationship on your own.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

denis, I agree people need to take claim to what they do, but this process preys on people that don't understand the implications and goes largely un regulated.

Some BS laws about these not being "loans" and it skirts real laws. To get a real loan these days they turn you inside out (unless you are Jessie Jackson jr) and you just cant keep allowing this and allowing people to dig their own graves

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

The problem is how society suffers from this like we saw a few years ago.

Some degree of consumer protections are always needed. We give corporations enough leeway to screw people over. They'll survive with one less.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I hear you BF. The payday lending industry and other places like used car lots are definitely predatory. There is a simple solution, which of course no one wants to hear- live within yours means, pay yours bills on time, and negotiate on your own behalf. Sure personal responsibility in our society is a lot concept, but I still believe it's the best defense.

There is another alternative that I often suggest in jest. Once you turn 18 you are sent a card by the government. Aged 18 is of course the age when a person can legally enter into binding contracts. This government letter would let you opt of your ability to enter into a contract. At that point you would be assigned a government representative that would show up whenever you wanted to get a loan, buy a house, or sign any contract. You are not smart enough to read a contract and understand what you are signing, so we'll let a bureaucrat do it for you.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Of course that is the best defense. However, there is no good reason to allow clear predatory practices to happen that provide people or society no real value. It almost always affects society at large for the benefit of the very few.

Imagine if you could go back right now and stop what caused much of the crash a few years ago. You wouldn't do it?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Do you see that as a realistic option?

Nope, it's not realistic. We live in a victim culture where someone else is always to blame for one's financial mistakes. In addition, our basic schooling includes little, if any, basic money management practices.

I was simply making the point to Ike that there is an easy way to avoid high cost loans. Keep in mind, the more rules you place on lenders, the less lending you get. That is why Fannie and Freddie are once again loosening restrictions on lending (just out this week) because there is a lack of access to credit. I am all for reasonable rules in the financial services industry. The best defense will always be an informed individual.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Tell that to all the homeowners who are currently underwater and have no chance of any government intervention.

You and me basically had to write a check to the big banks in Wall Street to cover the costs of their predatory practices. I have no problem then limiting some of their other ways of doing it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

The government and Fed should have let those banks be punished by the market.

Without pain there is no growth.

I wouldn't have bailed out the banks. The system needed a good cleansing and an injection that taking risks has consequences. Instead, we now have a greater concentration of banks with even bigger total asset levels.


The Great Deformation is an excellent book on the subject.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

Denis D doing work here.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

You can't just say "I wouldn't have done it". The reality is that they did it after the banks asked for it. That means we can and should start looking at what other predatory practices we can stop by them.

The banks WANT the government to intervene in their affairs. They opened up that door. Now, they can accept the consequences.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Wrong Section.

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This is the key. The decisions people make don't just affect themselves, as Rick has pointed out. They end up affecting all of us (regardless of whether you believe they should).There is no such thing as a free market here, and there really never has been. There needs to be regulation of financial institutions unless we'd like them to drive our economy to the brink of destruction again. The current Administration and Congress have done very little to prevent 2008 from happening all over again.

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Yes, the banks are certainly feeling the heat. They have paid tens of billions in fines and have been forced to accept lower interchange fees, low interest spreads thanks to Fed rate policy, higher capital standards (risk based capital), reduced overdraft fees, and a whole new host of rules under Dodd-Frank. I love it too. Now go complain about how banks won't lend to anybody.

"Why won't banks make loans?" Well, you got what you wanted. You de-risked them to the point where the loans aren't profitable.

Everyone seems to forget that companies are in business to make money. They are there to profit off you. Then when they do, we are surprised. Look out for your own interests. Caveat Emptor.

As for crony capitalism and bailouts, I have been against those all along. Anyone reading my posts know that I hate corporate welfare more than individual welfare.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

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There are externalities in all sorts of stuff. It is that type of thinking, like it affects us all, that gives the government a reason to intervene in Happy Meals. Our fat society costs Medicare and Medicaid, which I pay for, so it gives me the right to tell you how to eat. Uhh no it does not.

I am 100% for reasonable regulation of business. I don't want to go back to the Gilded Age. I just expect individuals to look out for themselves. If folks didn't buy homes they couldn't afford, then the subprime crisis would not have happened. Yes, the lenders are just as responsible, but I don't feel bad for people with minimum wage income buying $800,000 homes in California.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

I don't think you need to apply a slippery-slope like that. No one is asking for a nanny state. Regulation of banks and the complex financial mechanisms they use now is not the same as making it illegal to consume a Big Mac. One is simple; one is complex, and we as a society should be smart enough to tell the difference.

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And as a note, I don't disagree with your stance on personal responsibility. But the fact of the matter is that lack of personal responsibility inevitably becomes your and my problem once it hits a certain tipping point. Protect the less educated and regulate the predators now, and we all pay less for it later.

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I could get knee deep in bank profits with you as I underwrite hundreds of banks. I don't want to spend a ton of time on it because you have to understand accounting and finance at a high level have an intellectual discussion on this topic. Consider though

-Loan provisions are coming down (negative in many cases) because banks are way over reserved. That counts as income.
-Capital levels must be considered not absolute profits. Their profits must be looked at relative to their invested capital.
-Trading income is a mark to market concept and falling interest rates lead to lots of it.


Banks are very healthy from a balance sheet perspective. Their returns on capital are extremely low and not at market levels. If banks were earning their cost of capital, we would see lots of new ones like happened 10 years ago. Sadly, only one has been chartered in the last five years.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

The government and banking was just as responsible as the individual leading to 2008. Congress was pals with banking and go things all loose and people bought huge homes with nothing down. The quicken and their like called and said we will also refinance all the debt you had in furnishing your new home with a 2nd mortgage at 125% of its appraisal with no more down. These are golden times that will never end.

They ended. Changes are made and now lending is too tight lets loosen. I feel like I have seen this movie before.

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Elections have consequences.

BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT how far up can your arm go in your ass to pull that out? BULLSHIT. they make at least double what they pay out over the term of a low interest loan- all we are talking about is cutting off the practice of make 3,4 or 5 times as much as the loan is for. LOAN SHARKS, there used to be laws against them, but now we put them on tv and praise them!

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

We get it Dennis. You're an accountant.

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The entire system is wrought with moral hazard. FDIC deposit insurance is one prime example. No one cares if their bank is healthy because the Feds protect your deposits.

Oh well, I know I can't win the argument. I know all the pitfalls and problems with the system including current interest rate policy, but no one is willing to accept the fixes.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

bush was the one that said it. "everyone in america should own their own home"

romney followed up a few years later with "everyone should have a golf course in their back yard"

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

Actually that's my side job.....Finance is my graduate school major. The CPA thing was just for fun once I was in the workforce.


But yes it is my thing.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

My debate here wasn't about who caused the financial crisis or about regulation. I was simply making a life lesson statement: if you look out for your own interests, you don't need to fear big business. They are there to take your hard earned money. Make them work for it.

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Hawaii (fuck) You