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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Herbstreit said this morning that is what a penalty, but there was no reason for it. They were in a bad coverage and weren't going to stop ND anyway. On that play as a a wide receiver you just can't go down field and start blocking, show anything that you are trying to run a route and you get away with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:38 pm 
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I suppose on a running play if the hold happens on the far opposite side of the o line that should not be called either. Or the kick return block in the back away from the ball.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:40 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I suppose on a running play if the hold happens on the far opposite side of the o line that should not be called either. Or the kick return block in the back away from the ball.


Yes. I dont think minor penalties should be called that dont affect the outcome of the play.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:43 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Zizou wrote:
Guarantee will they make the play-off if they win out. They're very inconsistent so I think all the remaining games on their schedule are potential losses. Even NU! ND struggled with UNC and they are a budding dumpster fire. They seem to play down or up to their competition.
Notre Dame needs a loss by two of these three teams: MSU, Oregon, FSU. At this point, all three would make it over ND.

The other two teams will be SEC teams unless the SEC goes crazy with losses by everyone. I'm not convinced ND could jump the loser of the Egg Bowl and may struggle to even get in over Alabama.

Michigan State is behind ND in the AP poll

Everything I read seems to suggest ND wins out and its likely they get in.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:45 pm 
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Hank Scorpio wrote:
pittmike wrote:
I suppose on a running play if the hold happens on the far opposite side of the o line that should not be called either. Or the kick return block in the back away from the ball.


Yes. I dont think minor penalties should be called that dont affect the outcome of the play.
That was not a minor penalty. It was a major penalty and designed to do exactly what it did.

Notre Dame would score on that play against virtually any defense. One guy blantantly pass blocking from the snap and another guy doing it before the pass is thrown is NEVER going to be stopped. You'd have to have 4 guys over there for there to even be a chance.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/10/20/7010149/notre-dame-pass-interference-acc-official-explanation

Kelly rolled the dice of "Make the refs throw a flag" and they did. He knows what that play was designed to do.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:50 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Zizou wrote:
Guarantee will they make the play-off if they win out. They're very inconsistent so I think all the remaining games on their schedule are potential losses. Even NU! ND struggled with UNC and they are a budding dumpster fire. They seem to play down or up to their competition.
Notre Dame needs a loss by two of these three teams: MSU, Oregon, FSU. At this point, all three would make it over ND.

The other two teams will be SEC teams unless the SEC goes crazy with losses by everyone. I'm not convinced ND could jump the loser of the Egg Bowl and may struggle to even get in over Alabama.

Michigan State is behind ND in the AP poll

Everything I read seems to suggest ND wins out and its likely they get in.
AP poll means nothing. If they both win out MSU will jump them.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:52 pm 
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http://www.businessinsider.com/notre-dame-penalty-10


Notre Dame Coach Explains Why The Penalty Call That Lost Them The Florida State Game Was Wrong

TONY MANFRED


Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly said on Sunday that he's more confused about the controversial call at the end of the Florida State game now than he was on Saturday night.
Kelly's team lost 31-27 when a game-winning Notre Dame touchdown was called back because of an offensive pass interference penalty with 13 seconds left.

Here's the play. It was initially believed that C.J. Prosise (#20) was called for the penalty:


The referee essentially ruled that Notre Dame ran an illegal "pick play" — where a player blocks/interferes with another receiver's defender in order to get him open. The consensus among neutral observers is that the penalty was the correct call.

On Sunday, Kelly gave ESPN a thorough explanation for why he thinks the call was wrong He also revealed that the penalty was called on Will Fuller (#7), not Prosise (#20).


He said that the two Notre Dame receivers who looked like they were blocking were actually just running their normal routes:

Image

"All right, so he was on the point, we were in a bunch situation. First of all, it's my understanding now that Will Fuller was called for the penalty, not C.J. So C.J.'s job is to get into the end zone and turn around and be a big target. He was immediately grabbed at the line of scrimmage. He's trying to get depth into the line of scrimmage, into the end zone so Corey [Robinson] can clear a path. And so as that contact was being made, it was seen, I guess -- I don't know who saw it as interference -- but you've got two guys that are trying to fight for space. We saw it as such.

"He's supposed to find space, sit down and be a target. Again, it's a play that's a pretty common play in NCAA football -- where you're setting a point, guy turns around and the ball is thrown. The ball was thrown quickly, C.J. didn't even have a chance to turn around -- which may have led to some of the objects that people were talking about on TV, that he was blocking -- but he was simply trying to get his space in the end zone. And then of course now we're hearing that it was actually called on Will Fuller. So it's hard for me to really put it all together."

Kelly makes a plausible argument that the contact wasn't premeditated. But in the end it doesn't matter if the contact was premeditated. Both Fuller and Prosise were facing away from the quarterback and had their hands on their defenders when the ball was thrown, which is a violation, even if it isn't called all that often.

"But again, the play itself, in terms of what we ask our kids to do, it was pretty clear what happened on the play: Florida State blew the coverage and they got rewarded for it. It's unfortunate," he said.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:53 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
AP poll means nothing. If they both win out MSU will jump them.


Probably right but its bullshit. the MSU loss to Oregon was much worse than the ND vacated win at FSU.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:55 pm 
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Quote:
Notre Dame Coach Explains Why The Penalty Call That Lost Them The Florida State Game Was Wrong


We sure this isn't an Onion headline, Bryan?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:55 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Zizou wrote:
Guarantee will they make the play-off if they win out. They're very inconsistent so I think all the remaining games on their schedule are potential losses. Even NU! ND struggled with UNC and they are a budding dumpster fire. They seem to play down or up to their competition.
Notre Dame needs a loss by two of these three teams: MSU, Oregon, FSU. At this point, all three would make it over ND.

The other two teams will be SEC teams unless the SEC goes crazy with losses by everyone. I'm not convinced ND could jump the loser of the Egg Bowl and may struggle to even get in over Alabama.

Michigan State is behind ND in the AP poll

Everything I read seems to suggest ND wins out and its likely they get in.
AP poll means nothing. If they both win out MSU will jump them.

Todd McShay disagrees


"The biggest question for these Big Ten teams is whether or not the SEC gets two teams into the playoff. If so, their odds significantly decrease, especially if Florida State runs the table. A one-loss Pac-12 team would likely have a stronger case (particularly Oregon, as it beat Michigan State in Week 2), and a one-loss Notre Dame (which I have far more respect for this week than I did prior to its loss to FSU) and a one-loss Big 12 champ would also merit consideration."


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:57 pm 
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I don't think either should get in, SEC, SEC, SEC








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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:57 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
Quote:
Notre Dame Coach Explains Why The Penalty Call That Lost Them The Florida State Game Was Wrong


We sure this isn't an Onion headline, Bryan?

The fact that it was called on #7 is interesting.


You could make a case he was just running his route


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:58 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Quote:
Notre Dame Coach Explains Why The Penalty Call That Lost Them The Florida State Game Was Wrong


We sure this isn't an Onion headline, Bryan?

The fact that it was called on #7 is interesting.


You could make a case he was just running his route

You'd be wrong though. That gif showed a penalty on both players. Seems pretty clear to most objective people that ND lost fair and square.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:59 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Todd McShay disagrees


"The biggest question for these Big Ten teams is whether or not the SEC gets two teams into the playoff. If so, their odds significantly decrease, especially if Florida State runs the table. A one-loss Pac-12 team would likely have a stronger case (particularly Oregon, as it beat Michigan State in Week 2), and a one-loss Notre Dame (which I have far more respect for this week than I did prior to its loss to FSU) and a one-loss Big 12 champ would also merit consideration."
He isn't disagreeing with me. He said Notre Dame and the Big 12 champ would also merit consideration over MSU.

However, the ultimate tiebreaker would probably be MSU winning their championship game.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:00 pm 
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It looked a lot less like a penalty from this angle which, ironically, was where the refs were.

https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/3298649E861135469641834364928_2a09ba49bac.5.1.640382532488847293.mp4?versionId=RupcUgdzgOPws_QPJnqLdjDoxxU_tdKA

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:03 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Quote:
Notre Dame Coach Explains Why The Penalty Call That Lost Them The Florida State Game Was Wrong


We sure this isn't an Onion headline, Bryan?

The fact that it was called on #7 is interesting.


You could make a case he was just running his route

You'd be wrong though. That gif showed a penalty on both players. Seems pretty clear to most objective people that ND lost fair and square.

No I wouldnt. He ran forward.

Ive been objective. When it was supposedly called on the other guy, I said it was a penalty. What #7 did was way more debatable.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:04 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Todd McShay disagrees


"The biggest question for these Big Ten teams is whether or not the SEC gets two teams into the playoff. If so, their odds significantly decrease, especially if Florida State runs the table. A one-loss Pac-12 team would likely have a stronger case (particularly Oregon, as it beat Michigan State in Week 2), and a one-loss Notre Dame (which I have far more respect for this week than I did prior to its loss to FSU) and a one-loss Big 12 champ would also merit consideration."
He isn't disagreeing with me. He said Notre Dame and the Big 12 champ would also merit consideration over MSU.

However, the ultimate tiebreaker would probably be MSU winning their championship game.

You think MSU is a lock to pass Notre Dame


Every expert I can find online thinks it could go either way.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:05 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
The fact that it was called on #7 is interesting.


You could make a case he was just running his route

You'd be wrong though. That gif showed a penalty on both players. Seems pretty clear to most objective people that ND lost fair and square.

No I wouldnt. He ran forward.

Ive been objective. When it was supposedly called on the other guy, I said it was a penalty. What #7 did was way more debatable.

No it wasn't. He clear as day blocked the guy before the ball was anywhere near the receiver.

There really is nothing controversial or debatable here. Just sour grapes.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:09 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
The fact that it was called on #7 is interesting.


You could make a case he was just running his route

You'd be wrong though. That gif showed a penalty on both players. Seems pretty clear to most objective people that ND lost fair and square.

No I wouldnt. He ran forward.

Ive been objective. When it was supposedly called on the other guy, I said it was a penalty. What #7 did was way more debatable.

No it wasn't. He clear as day blocked the guy before the ball was anywhere near the receiver.

There really is nothing controversial or debatable here. Just sour grapes.

Its not sour grapes.

Dr Ken isnt a ND fan.

Seems like you have a thing against Notre Dame though. You're not being rational if you're saying what #7 did was clear cut interference.

You can absolutely make the case he was just running a route and got tangled up. To say otherwise is not being genuine.


Last edited by rogers park bryan on Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:09 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
You think MSU is a lock to pass Notre Dame


Every expert I can find online thinks it could go either way.
Yeah. It's my opinion that MSU will jump Notre Dame. When the ultimate decision comes down, MSU will benefit from a win in the Big Ten championship game.

Maybe I will be wrong. However, I think if I'm wrong, it is likely that neither team makes the playoffs. A strong case could be made that 3 SEC teams should be locked in by default this year. I don't know if they could justify it though unless we get pretty much every other team with 2 losses.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:10 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
You're not being rational if you're saying what #7 did was clear cut interference.
You can be running your route and also committing pass interference.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:12 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
You're not being rational if you're saying what #7 did was clear cut interference.
You can be running your route and also committing pass interference.

Similarly, you can come in contact with a defender without it being pass interference


Dr Ken's Vine post shows how incidental it was


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:14 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
You're not being rational if you're saying what #7 did was clear cut interference.
You can be running your route and also committing pass interference.

Similarly, you can come in contact with a defender without it being pass interference


Dr Ken's Vine post shows how incidental it was
Incidental? :lol:

So the one guy was clearly blocking for the only receiver who was being looked at from the very start of the play but the other guy was somehow thinking he was a target for the pass?

No way. The second guy was less obvious about it.

Anyways, you acknowledge it was the right call. The only question is if 1 player or 2 players were engaged in pass interference.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Anyways, you acknowledge it was the right call. The only question is if 1 player or 2 players were engaged in pass interference.

Not if it was on #7

He ran straight and turned. There were no arms out.


They could have called it on the other receiver. They didnt though.


Yes, it was incidental and that kind of contact happens on numerous plays in every game and goes uncalled.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:18 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
No it wasn't. He clear as day blocked the guy before the ball was anywhere near the receiver.

There really is nothing controversial or debatable here. Just sour grapes.

Its not sour grapes.

Dr Ken isnt a ND fan.

Seems like you have a thing against Notre Dame though. You're not being rational if you're saying what #7 did was clear cut interference.

You can absolutely make the case he was just running a route and got tangled up. To say otherwise is not being genuine.

I don't dislike Notre Dame. I dislike Brian Kelly. But I also don't like FSU or Winston. I wasn't rooting for anybody. But your use of the words incidental and tangled up is comically biased. It's a clear block dude. They didn't get tangled up.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:19 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Anyways, you acknowledge it was the right call. The only question is if 1 player or 2 players were engaged in pass interference.

Not if it was on #7

He ran straight and turned. There were no arms out.


They could have called it on the other receiver. They didnt though.


Yes, it was incidental and that kind of contact happens on numerous plays in every game and goes uncalled.

It was a purposeful block. The video shows that. The fact you can't admit that invalidates any claim of objectivity.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:19 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Anyways, you acknowledge it was the right call. The only question is if 1 player or 2 players were engaged in pass interference.

Not if it was on #7

He ran straight and turned. There were no arms out.


They could have called it on the other receiver. They didnt though.
Ok fine. Let's change the call to the other guy. Problem solved!

Be mad at Kelly for his horrible playcall. He didn't need to run that play and Notre Dame deserved to lose because of it.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:21 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
No it wasn't. He clear as day blocked the guy before the ball was anywhere near the receiver.

There really is nothing controversial or debatable here. Just sour grapes.

Its not sour grapes.

Dr Ken isnt a ND fan.

Seems like you have a thing against Notre Dame though. You're not being rational if you're saying what #7 did was clear cut interference.

You can absolutely make the case he was just running a route and got tangled up. To say otherwise is not being genuine.

I don't dislike Notre Dame. I dislike Brian Kelly. But I also don't like FSU or Winston. I wasn't rooting for anybody. But your use of the words incidental and tangled up is comically biased. It's a clear block dude. They didn't get tangled up.

You saying that repeatedly doesnt make it any less false


#7 never had his arms out. It's not even close to a "clear block" It was absolutely incidental. The receiver ran forward and bumped into the DB and turned in the direction of the QB. It happens on a ton of plays.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:22 pm 
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FavreFan wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Anyways, you acknowledge it was the right call. The only question is if 1 player or 2 players were engaged in pass interference.

Not if it was on #7

He ran straight and turned. There were no arms out.


They could have called it on the other receiver. They didnt though.


Yes, it was incidental and that kind of contact happens on numerous plays in every game and goes uncalled.

It was a purposeful block. The video shows that. The fact you can't admit that invalidates any claim of objectivity.

Again, you saying that over and over doesnt make it a fact.

Myself, Dr Ken and many other non ND fans have disagreed. Not sure why you're acting like it's a fact.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:22 pm 
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Ok. I'll just assume you haven't seen any clips of the play then because that's the only way this thread makes sense.

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