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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:26 am 
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So if Roy Williams gets his only title taken away do we go back to saying he cant win the big one?



Fake classes, inflated grades: Massive UNC scandal included athletes over 2 decades
Article by: AARON BEARD , Associated Press Updated: October 23, 2014 - 6:45 AM


CHAPEL HILL, N.C. — A scandal involving bogus classes and inflated grades at the University of North Carolina was bigger than previously reported, encompassing about 1,500 athletes who got easy A's and B's over a span of nearly two decades, according to an investigation released Wednesday.

At least nine university employees were fired or under disciplinary review, and the question now becomes what, if anything, the NCAA will do next. Penalties could range from fewer scholarships to vacated wins.

Most of the athletes were football players or members of the school's cherished basketball program, which won three of its five national titles during the scandal (1993, 2005, 2009).

Athletic director Bubba Cunningham wouldn't speculate on any possible sanctions.

"We'll work with the NCAA and work through the report with them as part of our ongoing investigation," Cunningham said. "That's going to take some time."

In all, about 3,100 students enrolled in classes they didn't have to show up for in what was deemed a "shadow curriculum" within the former African and Afro-American Studies (AFAM) department from 1993 to 2011, the report by former U.S. Justice Department official Kenneth Wainstein found.

Many at the university hoped Wainstein's eight-month investigation would bring some closure. Instead, it found more academic fraud than previous investigations by the NCAA and the school.

The UNC case stands out among academic scandals at Harvard, Duke and the Naval Academy, said Howard Gardner, a professor at Harvard's Graduate School of Education who studies cheating.

"I think the existence of fake classes and automatic grades — you might say an athlete track, where essentially you might as well not have the university at all — I think that's pretty extreme. I hope it's pretty extreme," he said.

The scandal reached back to the final years of legendary men's basketball coach Dean Smith's tenure, as well as Mack Brown's time as football coach before leaving for Texas and John Swofford's stint as athletic director before becoming Atlantic Coast Conference commissioner.

The NCAA reopened its probe over the summer. Cunningham said the school had no immediate plans to impose its own penalties as it did during an NCAA investigation into the football program that began in 2010.

The school and the NCAA said in a joint statement they would review Wainstein's report "under the same standards that are applied in all NCAA infractions cases." They declined to comment on possible rules violations.

The focus was courses that required only a research paper that was often scanned quickly by a secretary, who gave out high grades regardless of the quality of work. The report also outlined how counselors for athletes steered struggling students to the classes, with two counselors even suggesting grades. Several knew the courses were easy and didn't have an instructor.

Chancellor Carol Folt wouldn't identify the terminated employees or those facing disciplinary review.

"I think it's very clear that this is an academic, an athletic and a university problem," Folt said.

Wainstein's report said it found no evidence of similar problems in other departments. In addition, Hall of Fame men's basketball coach Roy Williams and other current coaches said they were aware there were independent study courses offering easy grades, but they didn't know the classes were fake.

Wainstein said he found no reason not to believe them.

Faculty and administration officials missed or looked past red flags, such as unusually high numbers of independent study course enrollments in the department, the report said.


"By the mid-2000s, these classes had become a primary — if not the primary — way that struggling athletes kept themselves from having eligibility problems," the report said.

Unlike previous inquiries by former Gov. Jim Martin and the school, Wainstein had the cooperation of former department chairman Julius Nyang'oro and retired office administrator Deborah Crowder — the two people at the center of the scandal.

Nyang'oro was indicted in December on a felony fraud charge, though it was dropped after he agreed to cooperate with Wainstein's probe. Crowder was never charged.

It was Crowder who started the paper classes to help struggling students with "watered-down requirements" not long after Nyang'oro became chairman in 1992, according to the report. Though not a faculty member, she registered students for the courses, assigned topics and handed out high grades regardless of the work and also signed Nyang'oro's name to grade rolls.

By 1999, in an apparent effort to work around the number of independent studies students could take, Crowder began offering lecture classes that didn't meet.

After her retirement in 2009, Nyang'oro met requests from football counselors to continue the sham classes and graded papers "with an eye to boosting" a student's grade-point average, according to the report. He stepped down in 2011 as questions were raised.

Beth Bridger, one of the former football counselors named in Wainstein's report, was fired Wednesday as an academic adviser for athletes at the University of North Carolina at Wilmington. A school spokeswoman Janine Iamunno said it would not comment further. Bridger was hired there in January.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:29 am 
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Uh, eh, eh, I, I, I, look again, you talk about the walking rectums, the human assbags, the UUUUH PEEEENUSes in college baksetball, uh, eh, he, Bobby Knight, Coach K, uh, eh, eh, and look, again, there are the good guys like Bob Huggins, but uh, eh, eeeeee, and I'm, uuuuu, look, for the love of God, Roy Williams is one of the worst!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:35 am 
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Back in the 70's-80's watching college football, I was always amused by all of the "hospitality & hotel management" or communications majors on all of the major college football powers that got announced when introducing the lineups. Seeing first hand what went on at DePaul & Illinois (in the Mike White/Neal Stoner era) and hearing about what happened at most schools just leaves me flat on stories like this.

There were a number of classes I had to take in undergrad that were probably equally worthless fwiw. I certainly have no interest in throwing stones.

And he won the big one, the same way Wooden's teams or the Fab Five "won" as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:35 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Back in the 70's-80's watching college football, I was always amused by all of the "hospitality & hotel management" or communications majors on all of the major college football powers that got announced when introducing the lineups.

I always respected the guys who were Phys Ed majors. It seemed honest.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:37 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Uh, eh, eh, I, I, I, look again, you talk about the walking rectums, the human assbags, the UUUUH PEEEENUSes in college baksetball, uh, eh, he, Bobby Knight, Coach K, uh, eh, eh, and look, again, there are the good guys like Bob Huggins, but uh, eh, eeeeee, and I'm, uuuuu, look, for the love of God, Roy Williams is one of the worst!


For the life of me, I distinctly remember Boers thinking Huggins used to be among the worst of the worst, especially with his lack of a graduation rate. I always thought his feelings were wildly exagerrated, but when did Terry do a 180 degree change.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:38 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Back in the 70's-80's watching college football, I was always amused by all of the "hospitality & hotel management" or communications majors on all of the major college football powers that got announced when introducing the lineups.

I always respected the guys who were Phys Ed majors. It seemed honest.


True. But equally useless.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:39 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Seeing first hand what went on at DePaul & Illinois (in the Mike White/Neal Stoner era) and hearing about what happened at most schools just leaves me flat on stories like this.
I'd only have a problem with it if there were players that wanted to concentrate more on school and couldn't.

If a guy wants to go to college and mess around for four years on someone else's dime that is their right. A lot of rich kids do the same with their parents backing.

My guess is at North Carolina, they were encouraging these players to do this and not simply making it an option.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:40 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Uh, eh, eh, I, I, I, look again, you talk about the walking rectums, the human assbags, the UUUUH PEEEENUSes in college baksetball, uh, eh, he, Bobby Knight, Coach K, uh, eh, eh, and look, again, there are the good guys like Bob Huggins, but uh, eh, eeeeee, and I'm, uuuuu, look, for the love of God, Roy Williams is one of the worst!


For the life of me, I distinctly remember Boers thinking Huggins used to be among the worst of the worst, especially with his lack of a graduation rate. I always thought his feelings were wildly exagerrated, but when did Terry do a 180 degree change.


Probably when bernstein started liking Huggins. :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:41 am 
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DJ White's major during the 4 years he spent at IU was General Studies. Uh, what. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:46 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Seeing first hand what went on at DePaul & Illinois (in the Mike White/Neal Stoner era) and hearing about what happened at most schools just leaves me flat on stories like this.
I'd only have a problem with it if there were players that wanted to concentrate more on school and couldn't.

If a guy wants to go to college and mess around for four years on someone else's dime that is their right. A lot of rich kids do the same with their parents backing.

My guess is at North Carolina, they were encouraging these players to do this and not simply making it an option.


I agree with you, but that's what Robert Smith(pre-med) always live in studio makes me laugh.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:18 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
General Studies


Roomed with Major Suckage at West Point ... there were always rumors.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:27 am 
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So when I took "Philosophy of Sports", "Repelling" , "Referee class" at U of A with Steve Kerr, Sean Elliott and Kenny Lofton....you are saying this might not have been the fine education my parents invested for me??????????? NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:29 am 
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bigfan wrote:
So when I took "Philosophy of Sports", "Repelling" , "Referee class" at U of A with Steve Kerr, Sean Elliott and Kenny Lofton....you are saying this might not have been the fine education my parents invested for me???????????

Did. Not. Happen.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:31 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Regular Reader wrote:
Back in the 70's-80's watching college football, I was always amused by all of the "hospitality & hotel management" or communications majors on all of the major college football powers that got announced when introducing the lineups.

I always respected the guys who were Phys Ed majors. It seemed honest.


nothing wrong with being a gym teacher...or owning/operating a hotel for that matter

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:34 am 
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So if UNC needs to vacate the 1993 title, who will be champion? Can't be Michigan because they have already vacated those wins. Maybe the NCAA should start playing a 3rd place game in the final four.

Also, fuck Eric Montross.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:48 am 
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bigfan wrote:
So when I took "Philosophy of Sports", "Repelling" , "Referee class" at U of A with Steve Kerr, Sean Elliott and Kenny Lofton....you are saying this might not have been the fine education my parents invested for me??????????? NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!


You can find easy classes anywhere. My friends who went to Carbondale used to laugh about classes called "Man, Recreation, and Leisure" and "Hi-Fi, Stereo, and Laser Beam". :lol: It was the 70s. Everyone wanted to take those classes. I don't remember anything quite as funny at Illinois, but I did take a journalism class with a guy named Bob Reid that was pretty fucking easy.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:52 am 
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One of the easier majors, and one that a lot of athletes took was Organizational Leadership Studies. Though, that also ended up being one of the majors with the highest job placement ratings especially when compared to most of the other easy majors.

My roommate was one and got a pretty good job right out of college. It was basically an easier version of a business degree.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:55 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
One of the easier majors, and one that a lot of athletes took was Organizational Leadership Studies. Though, that also ended up being one of the majors with the highest job placement ratings especially when compared to most of the other easy majors.

My roommate was one and got a pretty good job right out of college. It was basically an easier version of a business degree.


I'm pretty sure you and I have a different philosophy about the purpose of a university education. I see it as a quest for knowledge. You seem to view it as means to getting a job. That's what trade schools are for.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:03 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I'm pretty sure you and I have a different philosophy about the purpose of a university education. I see it as a quest for knowledge. You seem to view it as means to getting a job. That's what trade schools are for.
It's only a quest for knowledge if you come from a rich family. If you need to support yourself, it is a way to get a good job and then you can go to your library once your student loans are paid off.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:06 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
I'm pretty sure you and I have a different philosophy about the purpose of a university education. I see it as a quest for knowledge. You seem to view it as means to getting a job. That's what trade schools are for.
It's only a quest for knowledge if you come from a rich family. If you need to support yourself, it is a way to get a good job and then you can go to your library once your student loans are paid off.


But that's part of the problem. We've simply created a system where a college degree is the new high school degree. It's simply the base line for getting a job at all. I understand what you're saying practically. So now we have an entire country full of college grads that don't know shit.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:16 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But that's part of the problem. We've simply created a system where a college degree is the new high school degree. It's simply the base line for getting a job at all. I understand what you're saying practically. So now we have an entire country full of college grads that don't know shit.
I'm a big believer in the specialization of knowledge. I'd rather be an expert in one subject rather than know about a lot of different things. We all serve our purpose. If my purpose doesn't require a solid knowledge of french literature then I don't need to worry about it.

My biggest regret from college is that I took history classes over business classes. The only thing those history classes gave me was a few ironic truths about myself and a greater understanding of punk rock. I'm probably the only guy on this whole board who took a college level history class on the History of Rock and Roll and I'd rather listen to Nelly over The Beatles.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:17 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
bigfan wrote:
So when I took "Philosophy of Sports", "Repelling" , "Referee class" at U of A with Steve Kerr, Sean Elliott and Kenny Lofton....you are saying this might not have been the fine education my parents invested for me???????????

Did. Not. Happen.


Hmm...Pretty sure it did..but you might have better sources on it than me.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:19 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But that's part of the problem. We've simply created a system where a college degree is the new high school degree. It's simply the base line for getting a job at all. I understand what you're saying practically. So now we have an entire country full of college grads that don't know shit.
I'm a big believer in the specialization of knowledge. I'd rather be an expert in one subject rather than know about a lot of different things. We all serve our purpose. If my purpose doesn't require a solid knowledge of french literature then I don't need to worry about it.

My biggest regret from college is that I took history classes over business classes. The only thing those history classes gave me was a few ironic truths about myself and a greater understanding of punk rock. I'm probably the only guy on this whole board who took a college level history class on the History of Rock and Roll and I'd rather listen to Nelly over The Beatles.


But what you're describing is not education. It's training. There's a huge difference.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:21 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But that's part of the problem. We've simply created a system where a college degree is the new high school degree. It's simply the base line for getting a job at all. I understand what you're saying practically. So now we have an entire country full of college grads that don't know shit.
I'm a big believer in the specialization of knowledge. I'd rather be an expert in one subject rather than know about a lot of different things. We all serve our purpose. If my purpose doesn't require a solid knowledge of french literature then I don't need to worry about it.

My biggest regret from college is that I took history classes over business classes. The only thing those history classes gave me was a few ironic truths about myself and a greater understanding of punk rock. I'm probably the only guy on this whole board who took a college level history class on the History of Rock and Roll and I'd rather listen to Nelly over The Beatles.

Its why Bill cartwrights attempt to have a Sports charter school is a solid idea.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:34 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
But what you're describing is not education. It's training. There's a huge difference.
I wasn't really being trained with skills though. It was concepts and ideas and methods that I was learning.

My experience may have been a little different because pretty much any skill they taught was already on the way to being obsolete by the time I graduated.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:43 am 
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I took a 400 level course in college called Drug Education, I am fairly certain I remember it being nothing but athletes. The instructor was the basketball coach. They had a small tournament to start the year and he told the rest of us if we worked the tournament we would get a A in the class. That was a fine tournament.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:48 am 
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I'd say this qualifies as "lack of institutional control". It certainly rivals giving a kid $12 for a pizza.

But, nothing will happen to UNC. They'll forfeit some meaningless wins and a scholarship in basketball and 2 in football.

The NCAA would have set Memorial Stadium and the State Farm Center on fire already if this were Illinois.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:51 am 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
I took a 400 level course in college called Drug Education, I am fairly certain I remember it being nothing but athletes. The instructor was the basketball coach. They had a small tournament to start the year and he told the rest of us if we worked the tournament we would get a A in the class. That was a fine tournament.


Arizona had many of these classes offered....Depaul had none of them.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:00 am 
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My friend said UIC in the 80's had a BS class called Sociology 269 (not kidding). They discussed and watched porn almost for A's.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:02 am 
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Just because nothing was found doesn't mean they weren't guilty.

Oh wait, they actually did find something wrong. Still no penalty I'm sure.

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