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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:26 pm 
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I read this article from The Guardian, the British news outlet, about the Lions/Falcons game and actually found the comment section to be rather endearing to read. I love seeing the other side of things and other people's arguments...and I'm going to clip from a conversation between 2 users who BRick and JORR the hell out of each other...it was really fun to read. And it was nice to learn something new...like that the English do not really seem to like their Rugby League.

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I know the the game, the rules and even played the Madden games. But Grid Iron football is unwatchable live. In
If I was the NFL I would save the money and forget about a London team. If London Rugby teams struggle sell out their smaller stadiums, Grid Iron with a far smaller fan base will struggle to sell out a 95,000 stadium when a team arrives. Most of the time the games are full of ex-pat Americans who want to see existing teams. Will these same fans turn up for a British team?
I remember the London Monarchs in the early 1990s. They were really popular in the first season when they first started up because they were novel . They even won NFL Europe in the first year , but as soon as the team didn't have a winning record, nobody was interested and the team were booted out of Wembley, then White Hart Lane and smaller stadiums until the league was stopped due to the low attendances.

I see why the NFL want a London team to expand the game beyond America, but shipped has already sailed. In the 1980s NFL was huge internationally because it was much slicker and glossy compared to British sports, so people like the Joe Montana and William 'The Fridge' Perry were household names in England. But now soccer and other sports have applied American sports marketing models and international interest in American sports has declined a lot in the last 15 years. The NFL is a sport that has been moulded by American TV networks and this is why it struggles for international audiences. Sky really do over promote the game I read for viewership NFL ranks only 18th for Sky Sports and never gets more than 100,000 viewers for live games, but Sky promote it like it is the 3rd or 4th most popular sport in the UK. It must be part of the NFL contract.
This game at 1pm in England and morning in America was about killing soccer in America. The Premier League has been getting great viewer numbers for NBC in the morning as no American sports play at that time and they have discovered Americans don't mind consuming sport early in the morning. The NFL want a London team to fill that early morning slot to kill interest in soccer stateside. There is a real fear of soccer in America because the demographics for soccer lovers is young. For Americans under 25 soccer is now the 2nd most popular sport and because the average soccer fan is much younger than fans of the traditional American sports the NFL want to kill this before it is a problem. In the 1970s Baseball was the number one sport and within a generation NFL is now number 1 and baseball is number 3.
As a lifelong US NFL fan I don't see this as an either-or issue of fans. I don't believe for a minute that timing of the broadcast included any thought of US MLS. Watching a soccer game doesn't require us to mentally "abandon" football. What would be wise for MLS is to schedule themselves around football and not try to compete for the same time slot. Football will win.
MLS in the US should also consider several historic trends in the US. Basketball and hockey are winter games. I watch and attend both. Baseball is a summer game. Football is a fall game.
Then MLS should consider day of the week.
Friday night is for high school football. Saturday is for college football. Sunday is for professional football. Then they have been successful selling a Thursday and Monday night games.
So there is room for MLS. Some football fans will watch MLS when convenient but will still not abandon football. Season, day, and time matters for that segment of the fan base. Some soccer fans will only watch MLS and will never, and don't currently, watch football. Time and season doesn't matter for them.


Link to the article:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/26/detroit-lions-atlanta-falcons-nfl-match-report


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:32 pm 
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This game at 1pm in England and morning in America was about killing soccer in America.


:lol: Hoo-kay pal ...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:35 pm 
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Football has a HUGE barrier to entry. They should stop with the international stuff. It's not basketball or baseball.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:37 pm 
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the one guy makes a good point, too, that we'd be filling that team with american players. why would the english root for that team? especially since they tried this and it failed before.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:44 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Football has a HUGE barrier to entry. They should stop with the international stuff. It's not basketball or baseball.


Agreed. It's bad enough with East Cost teams playing on the West Coast, or having games on Thursday and Monday nights ... there's enough study on the books to show there's probably a notable negative effect on that relatively small amount of travel ... having one team go to London to face a team that's based there? That's just preposterous ... never mind them flying over here to play.

If baseball or basketball can't pull off truly international play, the single most Americanized sport sure as hell stands no chance whatsoever.

I take that back ... let's see if we can get an NFL team over in Saudi Arabia ... I'd like to see the domestic violence PSAs they'd run over there ...

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:28 pm 
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What the hell England? Newspaper comment sections are for illiterate ramblings of idiots, not actual discussion.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:05 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
What the hell England? Newspaper comment sections are for illiterate ramblings of idiots, not actual discussion.

Those comments had to fake. I didn't see the N-word anywhere.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:11 pm 
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A guy in England telling me about a game that is unwatchable?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:38 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
A guy in England telling me about a game that is unwatchable?

Image


I had the QPR v Aston Villa game on today from start to finish.
Saw maybe 15 minutes of the Bears game and none of the Green Bay game yesterday.
About 10 minutes of tonight's MNF game.
I'll watch the whole WS game tomorrow.
I like hockey, but I still haven't seen a Hawks game yet this year.
Some people just don't give a fuck about American football,
just like other people don't care about soccer.
Diff'rent Strokes....

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:45 pm 
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MLS should be all over early morning start times in the US. I might tune into a 10 AM game on Saturday or Sunday morning. They will never have a chance going up against any of the 4 sports in this country.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:06 am 
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W_Z wrote:
the one guy makes a good point, too, that we'd be filling that team with american players. why would the english root for that team? especially since they tried this and it failed before.


Give me every freaking Cuban you can find for the White Sox and I'll be happy

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:08 am 
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International Rugby this weekend at Soldier Field. Give it a try

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:15 am 
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They love their fantasy football, though.

A lot of "Gridiron" club teams, as well.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:17 am 
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I was in England during the Steelers-Cardinals Super Bowl. The BBC coverage had the NBC feed or whatever, but when the US would cut to commercials, they'd go to a panel featuring Rod Woodson and a couple other commentators explaining the rules of the game and what exactly had happened during the previous set of plays to the British audience like they were a bunch of preschoolers.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:02 am 
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The NFL is slowly building up the game there. It's already started to take off in Germany even with it's own domestic league. The Brits will eventually catch on and start producing NFL ready talent too.

I see there being up to four teams in Europe over the next twenty years. London and somewhere in Germany for sure. Probably Barcelona and Amsterdam some time after that. This makes scheduling a lot easier and travel schedules really easy since you can have teams play two straight road games on the other continent while also giving them a bye week.

The only problem with NFL Europe was that the players weren't the best players. It's the same problem the MLS will always have. No one will care about a minor league for better leagues. You may get some decent in person attendance numbers if you make it a fun experience but it won't really matter. Soccer has all but disappeared in America since the World Cup ended. That's because people don't want to watch inferior leagues and aren't ever going to make a big splash without games that matter close.

It really is a no-brainer proposition for the NFL to put a team in London after they continue to slowly build it up by putting more and more games there. What is the worst thing that happens? The stadium ends up being filled with Americans who are living in London and millionaire players complain about the inconvenience.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:22 am 
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bigfan wrote:
A guy in England telling me about a game that is unwatchable?

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:lol: point goes to bigfan.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:00 pm 
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Try teaching today's NFL to a child or someone who's never watched it. It's impossible. We're conditioned to the game because many of us grew up on it. To a newbie, it's AWFUL. It's slow and ridiculously complicated.
Their point is valid

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:03 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
Try teaching today's NFL to a child or someone who's never watched it. It's impossible. We're conditioned to the game because many of us grew up on it. To a newbie, it's AWFUL. It's slow and ridiculously complicated.
Their point is valid

Plus the majority of an NFL game is spent huddling and in commercial breaks.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Premiership Soccer. Little to no American players. I'm hooked.

I see no reason why NFL can't catch on there.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:12 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
Try teaching today's NFL to a child or someone who's never watched it. It's impossible. We're conditioned to the game because many of us grew up on it. To a newbie, it's AWFUL. It's slow and ridiculously complicated.
Their point is valid
All sports have a learning curve. Explain interference to a hockey novice or explain the scoring system in tennis and you'll get similar confused responses.

You can still enjoy a sport without knowing a lot about it. Everyone goes crazy for figure skating every 4 years and I bet .001% of viewers actually understand how it is scored.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:14 pm 
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KDdidit wrote:
wdelaney72 wrote:
Try teaching today's NFL to a child or someone who's never watched it. It's impossible. We're conditioned to the game because many of us grew up on it. To a newbie, it's AWFUL. It's slow and ridiculously complicated.
Their point is valid

Plus the majority of an NFL game is spent huddling and in commercial breaks.
It's amazing anyone even watches the NFL!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:15 pm 
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wdelaney72 wrote:
Try teaching today's NFL to a child or someone who's never watched it. It's impossible.
You could say the same for soccer- clock counts up and never stops, lines you can't cross, flopping, 2-1 considered an offensive explosion, 0-0 ties, etc.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:42 pm 
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Every sport is stupid and boring except for some of the ones we grew up watching or playing, good talk everyone.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:01 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Explain interference to a hockey novice

Don't check a guy who doesn't have the puck.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:03 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Explain interference to a hockey novice

Don't check a guy who doesn't have the puck.
I see a lot of contact on people who don't have the puck.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:14 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Explain interference to a hockey novice

Don't check a guy who doesn't have the puck.

What about the goalie when he has the puck?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Rule 56 - Interference
56.1 Interference - A strict standard on acts of interference must be adhered to in all areas of the rink.
Body Position: Body position shall be determined as the player skating in front of or beside his opponent, traveling in the same direction. A player who is behind an opponent, who does not have the puck, may not use his stick, body or free hand in order to restrain his opponent, but must skate in order to gain or reestablish his proper position in order to make a check.
A player is allowed the ice he is standing on (body position) and is not required to move in order to let an opponent proceed. A player may “block” the path of an opponent provided he is in front of his opponent and moving in the same direction. Moving laterally and without establishing body position, then making contact with the non-puck carrier is not permitted and will be penalized as interference. A player is always entitled to use his body position to lengthen an opponent’s path to the puck, provided his stick is not utilized (to make himself “bigger” and therefore considerably lengthening the distance his opponent must travel to get where he is going); his free hand is not used and he does not take advantage of his body position to deliver an otherwise illegal check.
Possession of the Puck: The last player to touch the puck, other than the goalkeeper, shall be considered the player in possession. The player deemed in possession of the puck may be checked legally, provided the check is rendered immediately following his loss of possession.
Restrain: The actions of a player or goalkeeper who does not have body position, but instead uses illegal means (e.g. hook with stick; hold with hands, trip with the stick or in any manner) to impede an opponent who is not in possession of the puck. Illegal means are acts which allow a player or goalkeeper to establish, maintain or restore body position other than by skating.
Pick: A “pick” is the action of a player or goalkeeper who checks an opponent who is not in possession of the puck and is unaware of the impending check/hit. A player who is aware of an impending hit, not deemed to be a legal “battle for the puck,” may not be interfered with by a player delivering a “pick.” A player delivering a “pick” is one who moves into an opponent’s path without initially having body position, thereby taking him out of the play. When this is done, an interference penalty shall be assessed.
Free Hand: When a free hand is used to hold, pull, tug, grab or physically restrain an opponent from moving freely, this must be penalized as holding. The free hand may be used by a player to “fend off” an opponent or his stick, but may not be used to hold an opponent’s stick or body.
Stick: A player who does not have body position on his opponent, who uses his stick (either the blade or the shaft, including the butt-end of the shaft) to impede or prevent his opponent from moving freely on the ice shall be assessed a hooking penalty.
56.2 Minor Penalty - A minor penalty shall be imposed on a player who interferes with or impedes the progress of an opponent who is not in possession of the puck.
A minor penalty shall be imposed on a player or goalkeeper who restrains an opponent who is attempting to “fore-check.”
A minor penalty shall be imposed on an attacking player who deliberately checks a defensive player, including the goalkeeper, who is not in possession of the puck.
A minor penalty shall be imposed on a player who shall cause an opponent who is not in possession of the puck to be forced off-side, causing a stoppage in play. If this action causes a delayed off-side (and not necessarily a stoppage in play), then the application of a penalty for interference is subject to the judgment of the Referee.
A minor penalty shall be imposed on a player who deliberately knocks a stick out of an opponent’s hand, or who prevents a player who has dropped his stick or any other piece of equipment from regaining possession of it.
A minor penalty shall be imposed on a player who knocks or shoots any abandoned or broken stick or illegal puck or other debris towards an opposing puck carrier in a manner that could cause him to be distracted. (See also Rule 53 – Throwing Equipment.)
A minor penalty shall be imposed on any identifiable player on the players’ bench or penalty bench who, by means of his stick or his body, interferes with the movements of the puck or any opponent on the ice during the progress of the play. In addition, should a player about to come onto the ice, play the puck while one or both skates are still on the players’ or penalty bench, a minor penalty for interference shall be assessed.
The appropriate penalty according to the playing rules shall be assessed when a player on the players’ or penalty bench gets involved with an opponent on the ice during a stoppage in play. The player(s) involved may be subject to additional sanctions as appropriate pursuant to Rule 28 – Supplementary Discipline.
56.3 Bench Minor Penalty - A bench minor penalty shall be imposed when an unidentifiable player on the players’ bench or penalty bench or any Coach or non-playing Club personnel who, by means of his stick or his body, interferes with the movements of the puck or any opponent on the ice during the progress of the play.
56.4 Major Penalty - The Referee, at his discretion, may assess a major penalty, based on the degree of violence, to a player guilty of interfering with an opponent (see 56.5).
56.5 Game Misconduct Penalty – When a major penalty is imposed under this rule for a foul resulting in an injury of an opponent, a game misconduct shall be imposed.
56.6 Penalty Shot - When a player in control of the puck in the neutral or attacking zone and having no other opponent to pass than the goalkeeper is interfered with by a stick or any part thereof or any other object or piece of equipment thrown or shot by any member of the defending team including the Coach or non-playing Club personnel, a penalty shot shall be awarded to the non-offending team. When a Coach or non-playing Club personnel is guilty of such an act, he shall be automatically suspended from the game, ordered to the dressing room and the matter will be reported to the Commissioner for possible further disciplinary action.
56.7 Awarded Goal - If, when the goalkeeper has been removed from the ice, any member of his team (including the goalkeeper) not legally on the ice, including the Coach or non-playing Club personnel, interferes by means of his body, stick or any other object or piece of equipment with the movements of the puck or an opposing player in the neutral or attacking zone, the Referee shall immediately award a goal to the non-offending team. When a Coach or non-playing Club personnel is guilty of such an act, he shall be automatically suspended from the game, ordered to the dressing room and the matter will be reported to the Commissioner for possible further disciplinary action.


Explain that to a child!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:21 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:30 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Explain interference to a hockey novice

Don't check a guy who doesn't have the puck.
I see a lot of contact on people who don't have the puck.

Yeah, the league doesn't like calling interference very much.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:39 pm 
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i see a lot of holding in the NFL that isn't called
whats up with that


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