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Did Renteria get a fair shake?
No, he was fucked by an evil employer without being given a chance. 50%  50%  [ 15 ]
Yes, when you have a chance to get an all-time great like Joe Maddon honor and morality go out the window. 50%  50%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 30
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:23 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
spanky wrote:
So this isn't a sports decision?

JORR, stop what you're doing. Go outside, you need fresh air. I hope it's not too late.


Are you looking for a semantic argument? The manager is a management position. He's not talent. Like I said, it isn't anything like replacing an outfielder with a younger guy or replacing Wally Pipp with Lou Gehrig. It's much closer to replacing Scorehead with another sales manager.


That is a bad argument. Again, you are admitting to being open to being "evil." You are just vague about your price.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:25 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
...if the Cubs currently have a starting third baseman... do they not sign a third baseman in the off-season since the current third baseman is still under contract? I mean...he is employed by your organization currently... there is no way you can replace him with a free agent until you release him...then and only then can you think about other third basemen?
A team can have two third baseman. They can't have two managers.

First of all, I said starting third baseman. And if we want to be nit-picky, I'm pretty sure every team has a third baseman...and then a guy who can fill in a third but is generally a utility guy. You don't have two guys that only play third base. There may be exceptions, but they are certainly far and few between.

And a manager is considered a coach, and every team has multiple coaches.

Just as a job switch from a manager to a coach would be demotion, so to would being the starting third baseman to becoming a bench player.
Fine. A starting third baseman can be switched to another position on the same contract(Jeter/A-Rod is an example of a position switch). A manager can't.

They aren't the same thing at all.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:26 pm 
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spanky wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
spanky wrote:
So this isn't a sports decision?

JORR, stop what you're doing. Go outside, you need fresh air. I hope it's not too late.


Are you looking for a semantic argument? The manager is a management position. He's not talent. Like I said, it isn't anything like replacing an outfielder with a younger guy or replacing Wally Pipp with Lou Gehrig. It's much closer to replacing Scorehead with another sales manager.

Replacing an on field manager - in the hopes of producing more on field wins - is a sports decision.
It's not semantics. It's common sense.


Bad.


So you're indicting Theo Epstein now? I have no problem if that's the way you want to go. Because if he didn't think Renteria was capable of producing the hoped for on field wins when he hired him LESS THAN ONE YEAR AGO, there's a serious problem in upper management. Which is it? In any case, BAD. Common sense.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:27 pm 
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brick - would you say a baseball manager is involved in sports?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:28 pm 
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Let's just cut to the chase.

Renteria wasn't worth firing three weeks ago. Now, the Cubs want to fire him. They are within their rights to do it but it sucks for the manager who did everything they asked to launch him after one year.

It would be like if my wife found a guy who she thought was better and ditched this hero for a slightly better hero. Yeah, she could do it but it still sucks for me.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:29 pm 
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spanky wrote:
brick - would you say a baseball manager is involved in sports?
Leave me out of this, because your use of "literally" was a mistake but I'm being nice to you about it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:31 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
So you're indicting Theo Epstein now? I have no problem if that's the way you want to go. Because if he didn't think Renteria was capable of producing the hoped for on field wins when he hired him LESS THAN ONE YEAR AGO, there's a serious problem in upper management. Which is it? In any case, BAD. Common sense.

Strange as it may be - I'm comfortable having my "common sense reality" be a little different than yours. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:32 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
spanky wrote:
brick - would you say a baseball manager is involved in sports?
Leave me out of this, because your use of "literally" was a mistake but I'm being nice to you about it.

I made no mistake. I used literally correctly. Literally both times.

So are Renteria and Maddon involved in sports?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:32 pm 
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Why won't anyone respond to me!!!!???

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:33 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It would be like if my wife found a guy who she thought was better and ditched this hero for a slightly better hero. Yeah, she could do it but it still sucks for me.

You literally think marriage vows are the same as a business contract?

Yeesh...sorry Mrs. BRick. :(

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:33 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Why won't anyone respond to me!!!!???

Baseball manager - sports position?

YES OR NO

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:34 pm 
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spanky wrote:
I made no mistake. I used literally correctly. Literally both times.
I'd be interested to hear the coaches in each sport this happened to last year. That doesn't even include the coaches in each sport that got fired after 1 year last year.

Remember, you said "literally" so don't start qualifying it.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:35 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
spanky wrote:
I made no mistake. I used literally correctly. Literally both times.
I'd be interested to hear the coaches in each sport this happened to last year. That doesn't even include the coaches in each sport that got fired after 1 year last year.

Remember, you said "literally" so don't start qualifying it.

You want me to list all of the coaches that were let go before the end of their contract for somebody that was perceived to be better? That's literally what is (possibly) happening here.

Ok, but give me a minute......

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:36 pm 
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spanky wrote:
You literally think marriage vows are the same as a business contract?


Why not? Is Tom Ricketts the only person allowed to seek better production?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:37 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
spanky wrote:
You literally think marriage vows are the same as a business contract?


Why not? Is Tom Ricketts the only person allowed to seek better production?

If that's the case, I needed a better agent all those years ago. :|

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:37 pm 
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spanky wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
spanky wrote:
I made no mistake. I used literally correctly. Literally both times.
I'd be interested to hear the coaches in each sport this happened to last year. That doesn't even include the coaches in each sport that got fired after 1 year last year.

Remember, you said "literally" so don't start qualifying it.

You want me to list all of the coaches that were let go before the end of their contract for somebody that was perceived to be better? That's literally what is (possibly) happening here.

Ok, but give me a minute......


Except you aren't going to do that. You're going to list coaches who failed. The perception that the guy replacing them was better was based on evidence. Not whim.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:38 pm 
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spanky wrote:
You literally think marriage vows are the same as a business contract?

Yeesh...sorry Mrs. BRick. :(
I don't see much difference. The law certainly would be similar.
spanky wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
spanky wrote:
I made no mistake. I used literally correctly. Literally both times.
I'd be interested to hear the coaches in each sport this happened to last year. That doesn't even include the coaches in each sport that got fired after 1 year last year.

Remember, you said "literally" so don't start qualifying it.

You want me to list all of the coaches that were let go before the end of their contract for somebody that was perceived to be better? That's literally what is (possibly) happening here.

Ok, but give me a minute......
They already were negotiating with other coaches while they were still the coach?

Even then, the "after one year" will be impossible I'd guess.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:41 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
spanky wrote:
You literally think marriage vows are the same as a business contract?

Yeesh...sorry Mrs. BRick. :(
I don't see much difference. The law certainly would be similar.
spanky wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
spanky wrote:
I made no mistake. I used literally correctly. Literally both times.
I'd be interested to hear the coaches in each sport this happened to last year. That doesn't even include the coaches in each sport that got fired after 1 year last year.

Remember, you said "literally" so don't start qualifying it.

You want me to list all of the coaches that were let go before the end of their contract for somebody that was perceived to be better? That's literally what is (possibly) happening here.

Ok, but give me a minute......
They already were negotiating with other coaches while they were still the coach?

Even then, the "after one year" will be impossible I'd guess.

You are putting JORR's words in my mouth.
Maybe go back and look at my use of the word "literally"

Coaching upgrades happen every single year, and almost always before the length of the contract.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:42 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
spanky wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
spanky wrote:
I made no mistake. I used literally correctly. Literally both times.
I'd be interested to hear the coaches in each sport this happened to last year. That doesn't even include the coaches in each sport that got fired after 1 year last year.

Remember, you said "literally" so don't start qualifying it.

You want me to list all of the coaches that were let go before the end of their contract for somebody that was perceived to be better? That's literally what is (possibly) happening here.

Ok, but give me a minute......


Except you aren't going to do that. You're going to list coaches who failed. The perception that the guy replacing them was better was based on evidence. Not whim.

Of course I'm not gonna do it. The list would be too long. I don't need THAT much proof.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:47 pm 
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spanky wrote:
You are putting JORR's words in my mouth.
Maybe go back and look at my use of the word "literally"

Coaching upgrades happen every single year, and almost always before the length of the contract.
That isn't really the point. If the Cubs fired Ricky the day after the last game then we wouldn't be discussing this.

The whole issue is that the Cubs are currently negotiating a contract while they have a coach. This coach even had to do a press release basically saying "I still want to manage the Cubs!". The Cubs wanted Ricky until Friday evening(unless they tampered prior to that). They may even be willing to settle for Ricky if they aren't able to get the new guy!

It just sucks for him.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:48 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It just sucks for him.

This is true.
The $$ will help that.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:56 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
It would be like if my wife found a guy who she thought was better and ditched this hero for a slightly better hero. Yeah, she could do it but it still sucks for me.

You're safe man. I haven't heard from her.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:02 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Oh, no I really disagree with that

Business is business.

People are ready to toss Mattingly after winning 93 and 95 in his first two years

Coaches are fired or let go prematurely for a better candidate in all sports. This is not unique.


I'm really shocked at this coming from you. "Business is business"? Does that mean anything is justifiable in pursuit of money?

And this would be quite unique. Rarely is a manager fired for managing a team exactly the way his superiors wanted it managed.


I think if one's employment is based on a contract it is reasonable to expect your employment to only last as long as the length of the contract, and since the contract protects you if the employer chooses to cut you loose before the end of the contract there is nothing wrong if the employer wants to flirt with other candidates.

Which of course is different than "employment at will" jobs which I assume pertains to most of us. In that case I figure most people would expect employment to last until either the employee resigns or is released for cause (even though cause may not be required).

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:32 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Scorehead wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I wish everyone would get this straight in their heads: the dishonor comes in openly negotiating with a person at same time the position is currently filled. It is humiliating for Renteria and professionally stunting. It is undignified for the organization. It even taints Maddon a bit.


I have not seen this "open negotiating" that you speak of.


Then you are willfully and invincibly ignorant

:lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:46 pm 
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The fact that JORR and Brick are on the same side of a battle is simply amazing.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Hawg Ass wrote:
The fact that JORR and Brick are on the same side of a battle is simply amazing.

It's a Sox thing.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:32 pm 
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This whole thing is Maddoning


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:36 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
The Cubs are not the first team to fire a manager early because a better candidate became available. (Red Sox, Marlins)
After 1 year?

Grady Little was two years and he won 90+ games in both years

Girardi was one year


The Marlins didn't fire Girardi because someone better came along, they fired Girardi because he clowned Jeffrey Loria for heckling the umpires from the front row. He won Manager of the Year and still got fired for insubordination. They replaced him with some idiot, as I recall.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:43 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
This whole thing is Maddoning


:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:47 pm 
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When is the press conference?

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