Stockton is still the best overall PG I've ever seen and he didn't win anything.

You probably don't remember them in their prime, but Magic & Isiah were both better. By far.

I didn't see either before 1987. Offensively both were better but I was including defense.

I didn't see either before 1987. Offensively both were better but I was including defense.

Isaiah was a very good defender. His backcourt mate, Joe Dumars and Isaiah made up a great tandem on both ends of the court.

Isiah was a better defender when he wanted to be & both were far, far better team leaders.

Stockton is wildly overloved. Just ask Kenny Smith and his two rings. Or Gary Payton. Or Mark Price.

Isiah was a better defender when he wanted to be & both were far, far better team leaders.

Stockton is wildly overloved. Just ask Kenny Smith and his two rings. Or Gary Payton. Or Mark Price.

Really? You think Stockton is overrated?

Iverson was better than nearly all of them.

I think he was a very good player. He had a solid shot, he was a solid defender, but the Malones (Karl & Jeff) made him. I'd certainly never would have paid to watch him play. I'd never have put him on the Dream Team and I don't think he's a top 75 all time player, despite his inflated career assist numbers.

I'd have to guess that there have to at least be 10-12 PGs in my lifetime that were better.

Iverson is the best small man ever to play the game. Period.

His heart is wildly underrated. I absolutely loved that guy.

What about those steals?

Pound for pound the greatest scorer in NBA history.

Iverson was better than nearly all of them.

NO!!!!! He was a shoot-first guy who did not have the proper mentality for a point guard. He was just an undersized 2 guard, who played the point....just like Derick Rose.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

Basically, if Michael Jordan in his prime was called a "point guard," Steve wouldn't want him on his team.

Who knew Elmhurst Steve wouldn't be a fan of "shoot first" guys...

He scored 13 points....wow! But he's a point guard and supposed to make others better and put others in position to succeed. He had 5 assists - when you can count the assists on one hand, it's not good. Oh, and he had 3 turnovers. A good point guard has an assist to turnover ratio of over 3.5. Chris Paul, guys like that commonly have a ratio of over 4 to 1. Derick Rose has always been amongst THE WORST in this area. He dribbles into double teams and throws passes at times after jumping (you learn not to do that in Jr. High) and in the Knicks game that 5/3 is a reflection of what he generally might accomplish, a 1.67 assist to turnover ratio. That ranks 38th in the league, or DEAD LAST amongst point guards. Probably because he's really an undersized 2 guard, playing the point. Shoutout denied!

This is going to reach a head pretty soon.

you are right about Derrick Rose. He is not a natural point and his decision making is questionable at best. The series against Miami Rose played terrible. He committed a lot of turnovers and forced a lot of shots. People kept saying he didn't have anyone to pass to but he kept throwing up wild runners against double and sometimes triple teams. There were guys open but he simply kept shooting.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

Theo would never have hired Jerry west.

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

This doesn't make sense. Would it make you feel better if they were called 2-guards?

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

I'm a big dumb shitlib baby

Basically, if Michael Jordan in his prime was called a "point guard," Steve wouldn't want him on his team.

Steve Nash could not defend my wife. But you listed him as one of your favorite guards.