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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:55 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Northside_Dan wrote:
He said their goal was to win the divsion, which seems like it should be the same for all teams. They have talent to compete, but they aren't going to 'peak' in 2015, still stayng the course and looking long term.
I'm just saying the media hasn't really built up the expectations. The Cubs have by their comments.

The Cubs may now realize that talking about winning the division and then winning 79 games may be a bad look.


Winning the division...heck, Maddon said he's shooting for the World Series next year. I can't imagine Renteria saying that without appearing delusional. I wonder if Theo told Maddon that the originally-planned 2015 budget was a little higher than 2014 (just enough to keep the pitchforks away), but now they are going to add another $30-50 million to open the window early.


I hope not. Stay your 2016 course and let Bryant, Baez, Alcantara etc play a full season under normal expectations. Why would you suddenly blow up three years of suck to contend just when your youth is coming up? You can't play youth exclusively and expect to contend.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:58 am 
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City of Fools wrote:
Jaw Breaker wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Northside_Dan wrote:
He said their goal was to win the divsion, which seems like it should be the same for all teams. They have talent to compete, but they aren't going to 'peak' in 2015, still stayng the course and looking long term.
I'm just saying the media hasn't really built up the expectations. The Cubs have by their comments.

The Cubs may now realize that talking about winning the division and then winning 79 games may be a bad look.


Winning the division...heck, Maddon said he's shooting for the World Series next year. I can't imagine Renteria saying that without appearing delusional. I wonder if Theo told Maddon that the originally-planned 2015 budget was a little higher than 2014 (just enough to keep the pitchforks away), but now they are going to add another $30-50 million to open the window early.


I hope not. Stay your 2016 course and let Bryant, Baez, Alcantara etc play a full season under normal expectations. Why would you suddenly blow up three years of suck to contend just when your youth is coming up? You can't play youth exclusively and expect to contend.


They finished the year playing .500 with the kids. You should expect them to progress or at least stay the same. And with the additions free agents, and the ability to spend the Soriano money, it should be safe to expect .500 and probably better. That's if they don't even expand the payroll.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:01 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I think Maddon went a little wild card in his press conference with talking about the World Series. Epstein has been a master at setting no standard by which to ultimately judge his success while with the Cubs.


Epstein has always said winning the World Series is the goal. For Maddon to say he is going to be talking to his players about the World Series doesn't seem so odd. He wasn't saying he expects to make the World Series, just that that is what they are going to talk about in the clubhouse. I bet that's normal, though I don't know for sure.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:44 am 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I think Maddon went a little wild card in his press conference with talking about the World Series. Epstein has been a master at setting no standard by which to ultimately judge his success while with the Cubs.


Epstein has always said winning the World Series is the goal. For Maddon to say he is going to be talking to his players about the World Series doesn't seem so odd. He wasn't saying he expects to make the World Series, just that that is what they are going to talk about in the clubhouse. I bet that's normal, though I don't know for sure.


Epstein has always put success in an incredibly ambiguous time frame. He has sprinted away from expectations and even now is trying to limit them to a time indeterminate.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 11:49 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Epstein has always put success in an incredibly ambiguous time frame. He has sprinted away from expectations and even now is trying to limit them to a time indeterminate.
Theo made most of the "compete in 2015" statements right before the season ticket renewal deadline and seemingly since then they've been reigning it in a little more.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:09 pm 
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They should compete in 2015. I'm not saying they have to be frontrunners in the WS odds, but "competing" -- at least in terms of the Wild Card-- is 85 wins.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:24 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
Castro's not a Theo guy but Baez is?

I dont see where anyone said Baez was a Theo guy


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:16 pm 
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Bucky Chris wrote:
City of Fools wrote:

I hope not. Stay your 2016 course and let Bryant, Baez, Alcantara etc play a full season under normal expectations. Why would you suddenly blow up three years of suck to contend just when your youth is coming up? You can't play youth exclusively and expect to contend.


They finished the year playing .500 with the kids. You should expect them to progress or at least stay the same. And with the additions free agents, and the ability to spend the Soriano money, it should be safe to expect .500 and probably better. That's if they don't even expand the payroll.


no, I expect the kids to go through more growing pains as the league figures them out, including Bryant. They're way too young to contend in this division. Who are they going to leapfrog? The Brewers led the division most of the year, the Cards and Pirates will still be great and the Reds totally underperformed.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:47 pm 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Castro's not a Theo guy but Baez is?

I dont see where anyone said Baez was a Theo guy


read Kirkwood's post above mine

The quote seems to indicate it

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:13 pm 
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good dolphin wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Castro's not a Theo guy but Baez is?

I dont see where anyone said Baez was a Theo guy


read Kirkwood's post above mine

The quote seems to indicate it

I did, I dont think it implied it.

Its not like they're saying they're trading Castro because Baez is here and Baez is a Theo guy. They're saying its possible to trade Castro because they have other options at short (theo guy or not)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 2:25 pm 
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City of Fools wrote:
Bucky Chris wrote:
City of Fools wrote:

I hope not. Stay your 2016 course and let Bryant, Baez, Alcantara etc play a full season under normal expectations. Why would you suddenly blow up three years of suck to contend just when your youth is coming up? You can't play youth exclusively and expect to contend.


They finished the year playing .500 with the kids. You should expect them to progress or at least stay the same. And with the additions free agents, and the ability to spend the Soriano money, it should be safe to expect .500 and probably better. That's if they don't even expand the payroll.


no, I expect the kids to go through more growing pains as the league figures them out, including Bryant. They're way too young to contend in this division. Who are they going to leapfrog? The Brewers led the division most of the year, the Cards and Pirates will still be great and the Reds totally underperformed.


They played almost a half of a season at .500 though. Brewers finished at .500 (6 games out of wild card). If the Cubs add help in free agency, they should be able to get back to .500 at least which to me is contending. And I'm saying contend for Wild Card, not for the division.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:48 pm 
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“It’s probably the first time agents can come into our suites without having to look both ways to make sure no one sees them coming in,” joked Cubs president Theo Epstein in talking to reporters last night at the GM Meetings in Phoenix. He added, “We’re no longer the runt of the litter, I guess.” More on the Cubs as they embark on what seems likely to be their most active offseason since 2006-07…
•Epstein further explained, “We have a couple of the most important currencies in the game: some payroll flexibility and some good young players. So it opens up a world of possibilities and makes it more fun.” The Cubs are known for the game’s best stash of position player prospects, and their commitments for 2015 will likely come in not much over $50MM.
•Epstein commented on his previous relationship in Boston with free agent lefty Jon Lester, saying, “Free agents in general, they’re going to make good decisions for themselves and for their family and try to find a place where they can win and be comfortable and find a contract that works for them. To the extent that relationships help reassure players about those different factors, then (our relationship is) relevant. It establishes a comfort and trust. But beyond that…he’s going to have his pick.”
•Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune also has Epstein’s thoughts on adding a reliever to put together a shutdown bullpen, as was on display in this year’s World Series. As Sullivan writes, the bullpen doesn’t seem to be a priority for the Cubs, and Epstein is careful to draw conclusions based on the Fall Classic.
•In his talk with reporters yesterday, Epstein made multiple mentions of “the next 15 months,” suggesting he’s got an eye on the 2015-16 free agent class as well.

My guess is it's Lester or bust for long-term pitching.

Then whichever guy they pick as their next reclaimation in Masterson, Anderson, Floyd etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 5:53 pm 
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“I think free agents, in general, are going to make good decisions for themselves and for their family,” Epstein said. “(They) try to find a place where they can win, find a place where they can be comfortable and find a contract that works for them.

“To the extent that relationships help reassure players about those different factors, then I think it’s relevant. It establishes a comfort and a trust. But beyond that, I don’t think personal relationships are (that important).

“(Lester’s) going to have his pick of places where he can go.”

One alternative could be Cole Hamels, if the Philadelphia Phillies decide to do a full-scale rebuild and deal their homegrown left-handed ace. The price for Hamels — who has four years and $90 million left on his contract and will be 31 next season — might look right compared to the free-agent market.

“Definitely open to making trades,” Epstein said. “You’re usually trading for younger players than you would acquire in free agency. You’re targeting players that you want to acquire in a trade versus just taking what’s available to you in the pool of free agents.

“Trades — while seemingly more painful at the time, because you have to give up talent, instead of just money — in the long run can actually at times work out better.

“The obvious move would be: ‘Hey, hold onto all your talent and just use money to sign free agents.’ And that will probably be our primary approach over the next 15 months. But you can make mistakes by holding onto your own players too long. (And) there’s a good chance that we make a trade of some significance over the next 15 months or so.”

Remember when the Cubs said draft day is their Super Bowl? How much they touted their farm-system rankings? It all led up to this moment.

“This allows us to sort of play the whole game,” Epstein said. “We have a couple of the most important currencies in the game with some payroll flexibility and some good young players. It opens up a world of possibilities. It makes it more fun.”

He keeps repeating bringing up next year's FA class. I don't see any way Hamels sports a Cubs jersey given his age, salary and their lunatic GM's demands.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:09 pm 
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I'd be happy coming away with Russell and Masterson in terms of big names. Or Russell and Lester if the $$$ isn't extreme. But this free agent class isn't as important as next year's.

One more year of seeing which kids will impact the long term and which kids won't will help.

But a veteran leader at catcher and a solid pitcher would do wonders whether it is 2015 or 2016.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 6:41 pm 
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My guy says Boston is gonna pay up crazy for Lester


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:11 pm 
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Did anyone link this yet?

http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2014/11/ ... -offseason

It builds my confidence that the Cubs will sign a couple top free agents.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Looks like Cubs going in on Zimmerman. :|


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:21 pm 
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Ohhh, Zimmermann**

That makes more sense.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:58 pm 
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The Padres are listening to trade offers for Ian Kennedy, Andrew Cashner and Tyson Ross, FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal reports (Twitter links). The team would look for hitting in return, though you’d suspect the asking prices would vary given the levels of team control — Kennedy is a free agent after the 2015 season, Cashner after 2016 and Ross after 2017. Rosenthal speculates that the Braves, Cubs, Diamondbacks, Indians, Rangers and Royals could fit as possible trade partners for San Diego.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:28 pm 
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I'd pursue Cashner. Though San Diego would never trade him back to the Cubs as the talent they would get in return would always be measured against Rizzo. As an obvious loss.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Don't bother looking up the stats for Don Roach ... there's not much material and it's not terribly flattering.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 7:19 am 
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Cuban infielder Yoan Moncada is quickly becoming one of the most hyped amateurs in history, and it’s expected that he will absolutely shatter the record for an amateur player — international or domestic — according to Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports. Passan spoke to a pair of GMs and two other executives, and all four agreed that they expect the 19-year-old Moncada to land an incredible $30-40MM bonus.

While that bonus doesn’t necessarily seem steep right off the bat, at least when juxtaposed with the commitments made to countrymen Yoenis Cespedes ($36MM), Yasiel Puig ($42MM), Jose Abreu ($68MM) and Rusney Castillo ($72.5MM), bear in mind that each of those players was viewed as a professional under baseball’s collective bargaining agreement and therefore was not subject to international spending limitations.

Moncada, on the other hand, will be subject to spending limits, but executives that spoke with Passan still seemed to believe the price tag could approach $40MM. That would obliterate any team’s bonus pool, and a signing team would have to pay a 100 percent luxury tax on all overages (in addition to subsequently being prohibited from spending more than $300K on a player in the next two signing periods). In that regard, then, a team would essentially be dropping $60-80MM to add Moncada to its farm system, based on the range Passan received in his poll of execs.

As Passan notes, Moncada has yet to be unblocked by the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control or Major League Baseball, so the timeline for his arrival on the free agent market is uncertain, but the timing of his arrival is critical. If Moncada isn’t declared a free agent until next year’s signing period (the current signing period runs through June 15, 2015), the Angels, Yankees and Red Sox would not be able to sign him, as the penalties they’ve incurred prevent them from signing a player for more than $300K in the next two signing periods. If he’s declared a free agent in the current signing period, the Rangers and Cubs, who exceeded their bonus pool in the 2013-14 signing period, would not be able to sign him.

Nearly every team was on-hand today in Guatemala to see a Moncada showcase, although Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register tweets that the Angels weren’t there to see him (they’ve seen him in the past, Fletcher notes).

MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo spoke to multiple scouts who were on-hand, with one scout giving Moncada a 60 hit-tool, 60 power, 70 speed, a 60 arm and a 50 in terms of fielding (on the 20-80 scouting scale). A scouting director told Mayo that Moncada is “worth going way over your international spending pool,” adding that the game is ultimately about talent, and Moncada “is the kind of talent worth the investment.” Another touted his five-tool potential and said he was in great shape. Mayo hears that Moncada looked better at third and second than shortstop, though he has the arm to play any infield position. The Yankees, Red Sox, Braves and Cubs all had four or more scouts in attendance, per Mayo.

Those wishing to learn more about the potential phenom can check out this report on him from Baseball America’s Ben Badler penned back in August.

Jankees say they're staying out of top-tier free agency. They have this hole as SS. Plus they're already barred from signing over 300K the next two years for overspending this year. Hi Mr. Yoan, here's your pinstripes and $50 million.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 9:06 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
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Cuban infielder Yoan Moncada is quickly becoming one of the most hyped amateurs in history, and it’s expected that he will absolutely shatter the record for an amateur player — international or domestic — according to Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports. Passan spoke to a pair of GMs and two other executives, and all four agreed that they expect the 19-year-old Moncada to land an incredible $30-40MM bonus.

While that bonus doesn’t necessarily seem steep right off the bat, at least when juxtaposed with the commitments made to countrymen Yoenis Cespedes ($36MM), Yasiel Puig ($42MM), Jose Abreu ($68MM) and Rusney Castillo ($72.5MM), bear in mind that each of those players was viewed as a professional under baseball’s collective bargaining agreement and therefore was not subject to international spending limitations.

Moncada, on the other hand, will be subject to spending limits, but executives that spoke with Passan still seemed to believe the price tag could approach $40MM. That would obliterate any team’s bonus pool, and a signing team would have to pay a 100 percent luxury tax on all overages (in addition to subsequently being prohibited from spending more than $300K on a player in the next two signing periods). In that regard, then, a team would essentially be dropping $60-80MM to add Moncada to its farm system, based on the range Passan received in his poll of execs.

As Passan notes, Moncada has yet to be unblocked by the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control or Major League Baseball, so the timeline for his arrival on the free agent market is uncertain, but the timing of his arrival is critical. If Moncada isn’t declared a free agent until next year’s signing period (the current signing period runs through June 15, 2015), the Angels, Yankees and Red Sox would not be able to sign him, as the penalties they’ve incurred prevent them from signing a player for more than $300K in the next two signing periods. If he’s declared a free agent in the current signing period, the Rangers and Cubs, who exceeded their bonus pool in the 2013-14 signing period, would not be able to sign him.

Nearly every team was on-hand today in Guatemala to see a Moncada showcase, although Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register tweets that the Angels weren’t there to see him (they’ve seen him in the past, Fletcher notes).

MLB.com’s Jonathan Mayo spoke to multiple scouts who were on-hand, with one scout giving Moncada a 60 hit-tool, 60 power, 70 speed, a 60 arm and a 50 in terms of fielding (on the 20-80 scouting scale). A scouting director told Mayo that Moncada is “worth going way over your international spending pool,” adding that the game is ultimately about talent, and Moncada “is the kind of talent worth the investment.” Another touted his five-tool potential and said he was in great shape. Mayo hears that Moncada looked better at third and second than shortstop, though he has the arm to play any infield position. The Yankees, Red Sox, Braves and Cubs all had four or more scouts in attendance, per Mayo.

Those wishing to learn more about the potential phenom can check out this report on him from Baseball America’s Ben Badler penned back in August.

Jankees say they're staying out of top-tier free agency. They have this hole as SS. Plus they're already barred from signing over 300K the next two years for overspending this year. Hi Mr. Yoan, here's your pinstripes and $50 million.

That's a pretty big investment in a long term asset and will shift the portfolio paradigm in a big way.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:06 am 
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The issue with Moncada is that giving him a $30m deal incurs like $30m worth of penalties. It's more outrageous than the posting fees when Japanese players make the jump. And those fees are all due up front, so if payroll is at $50m it jumps to $100m for a 19 year old.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:25 am 
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While I'm sure some team will pony up, no team should give him that type of money. If he were drafted, the most he would get is like $7M to sign. MLB teams should just say "Fuck you, we aren't paying you that much money".


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:19 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
While I'm sure some team will pony up, no team should give him that type of money. If he were drafted, the most he would get is like $7M to sign. MLB teams should just say "Fuck you, we aren't paying you that much money".

Your company should get together with all of its competitors, all agree to not pay you what the market deems you're worth, and then you'd have to work for cheaper no matter where you go.

Genius idea.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:22 pm 
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Big Chicagoan wrote:
While I'm sure some team will pony up, no team should give him that type of money. If he were drafted, the most he would get is like $7M to sign. MLB teams should just say "Fuck you, we aren't paying you that much money".

Your company should get together with all of its competitors, all agree to not pay you what the market deems you're worth, and then you'd have to work for cheaper no matter where you go.

Genius idea.



Yep. Sheer genius. And then all CEOs should get together and implement drug testing and microchip implantation. If they all do it, the worker will have no choice but to comply. Now that's just business!

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
While I'm sure some team will pony up, no team should give him that type of money. If he were drafted, the most he would get is like $7M to sign. MLB teams should just say "Fuck you, we aren't paying you that much money".

Your company should get together with all of its competitors, all agree to not pay you what the market deems you're worth, and then you'd have to work for cheaper no matter where you go.

Genius idea.



Yep. Sheer genius. And then all CEOs should get together and implement drug testing and microchip implantation. If they all do it, the worker will have no choice but to comply. Now that's just business!

Agreed. Now we're well on our way to a streamlined and sustaining economy.

Successful market > free market.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:30 pm 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Big Chicagoan wrote:
While I'm sure some team will pony up, no team should give him that type of money. If he were drafted, the most he would get is like $7M to sign. MLB teams should just say "Fuck you, we aren't paying you that much money".

Your company should get together with all of its competitors, all agree to not pay you what the market deems you're worth, and then you'd have to work for cheaper no matter where you go.

Genius idea.


If only there were a word in the English language that encapsulated the concepts succinctly and comprehensively ...

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:32 pm 
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Someone will eventually discover I was being sarcastic. Eventually.

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