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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:38 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
I have a buddy. Let's call him Brian. Some of you may have met him.

He can drink no more than a 1/2 drink of hard liquor or maybe two Bud lights before it affects him.

And he knows it so at least the roads are that much safer.

Your friend Brian sounds gay.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:39 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
I have a buddy. Let's call him Brian. Some of you may have met him.

He can drink no more than a 1/2 drink of hard liquor or maybe two Bud lights before it affects him.

And he knows it so at least the roads are that much safer.


cool story bro


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:40 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
badrogue17 wrote:
As more states are poised to legalize medicinal marijuana, it's looking like dope is playing a larger role as a cause of fatal traffic accidents.

Columbia University researchers performing a toxicology examination of nearly 24,000 driving fatalities concluded that marijuana contributed to 12% of traffic deaths in 2010, tripled from a decade earlier.

NHTSA studies have found drugged driving to be particularly prevalent among younger motorists. One in eight high school seniors responding to a 2010 survey admitted to driving after smoking marijuana. Nearly a quarter of drivers killed in drug-related car crashes were younger than 25. Likewise, nearly half of fatally injured drivers who tested positive for marijuana were younger than 25.

A National Highway Traffic Safety Administration study found that 4% of drivers were high during the day and more than 6% at night, and that nighttime figure more than doubled on weekends.

Colorado has seen a spike in driving fatalities in which marijuana alone was involved, according to Insurance.com. The trend started in 2009 — the year medical marijuana dispensaries were effectively legalized at the state level.

NHTSA and the National Institute on Drug Abuse are now in the final months of a three-year, half-million-dollar cooperative study to determine the impact of inhaled marijuana on driving performance. Tests observe participants who ingest a low dose of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, a high dose and a placebo to assess the effects on performance, decision-making, motor control, risk-taking behavior and divided-attention tasks.

The study is being performed using what NHTSA calls "the world's most advanced driving simulator," the University of Iowa's National Advanced Driving Simulator, which was previously used to study the effects of alcohol on driving.

Sounds like bullshit. At no point in the article do they even attempt to explain how they would know somebody is high at the time of an accident.

Seriously

Its unbelievable to me that people buy this. I mean, if you know the thing about it staying in your system a month (i assume all here know that by now) why would you believe this?


BTW, those fatalities that spiken in 09? Clearly Obama's fault.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:44 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Rick, sometimes it sounds like you're not familiar with the effects of weed. It's way easier to hide than you're implying(or I'm inferring?). If I hung out with you 10 times and 5 of those times I got high directly beforehand, I'm almost certain you wouldn't be able to tell me which 5 times it was. You'd have to be really fucking high to involuntarily act like it in front of a police officer.


I picture you as being high a lot and (mostly) close to incoherent.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:45 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Its unbelievable to me that people buy this



c'mon no one reads the actual article or does any kind of critical thinking, they just react to the headline


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:45 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Rick, sometimes it sounds like you're not familiar with the effects of weed. It's way easier to hide than you're implying(or I'm inferring?). If I hung out with you 10 times and 5 of those times I got high directly beforehand, I'm almost certain you wouldn't be able to tell me which 5 times it was. You'd have to be really fucking high to involuntarily act like it in front of a police officer.


I picture you as being high a lot and (mostly) close to incoherent.


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:46 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bagels wrote:
do you have some statistics to show me how many fatal injuries have been caused by someone DUI/weed ?
There are plenty of them, but as we see with everything, people start shouting "You can get high two weeks earlier and test positive!"

Right, those studies are not legit.

Would you take a study seriously if it labeled accidents as DUI's for anyone who had drank in the previous three weeks before the accident?
If there was no better way to study it then yes I would. It doesn't mean it is a clear answer.

It's almost certain that drivers who are currently high have a better chance of an accident then those who are not. I believe you would even acknowledge that. These studies all pretty much show that someone who has been high "recently" is more likely to be in an accident.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:48 am 
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Spaulding wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Rick, sometimes it sounds like you're not familiar with the effects of weed. It's way easier to hide than you're implying(or I'm inferring?). If I hung out with you 10 times and 5 of those times I got high directly beforehand, I'm almost certain you wouldn't be able to tell me which 5 times it was. You'd have to be really fucking high to involuntarily act like it in front of a police officer.


I picture you as being high a lot and (mostly) close to incoherent.

:lol:

I'm pretty coherent I think, usually. I am high pretty often. I smoked like an hour ago. I think you're usually sober and I find my posts to be more coherent than yours often are. But I dont judge you for being sober.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:48 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
These studies all pretty much show that someone who has been high "recently" is more likely to be in an accident.


except that it doesn't. how you can you determine that it's in any way related ? Maybe they all also ate ham sandwiches, so what

good thing you put recently in quotes, since pretty much undermines the point ...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:52 am 
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Bagels wrote:
except that it doesn't. how you can you determine that it's in any way related ? Maybe they all also ate ham sandwiches, so what
Well, we can also look at the mind altering effects of ham sandwiches and combine the knowledge to see that driving while high may be a safety issue.

We know that marijuana is a mind altering substance and we have proof that people with marijuana in their system are more likely to be in an accident. That means there is likely at least some amount of increased danger for those who drive while high.

I can promise you that answer is a lot closer to the truth than what you are saying in this thread which is that driving while high isn't a problem and never will be.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:53 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Bagels wrote:
do you have some statistics to show me how many fatal injuries have been caused by someone DUI/weed ?
There are plenty of them, but as we see with everything, people start shouting "You can get high two weeks earlier and test positive!"

Right, those studies are not legit.

Would you take a study seriously if it labeled accidents as DUI's for anyone who had drank in the previous three weeks before the accident?
If there was no better way to study it then yes I would. It doesn't mean it is a clear answer.

It's almost certain that drivers who are currently high have a better chance of an accident then those who are not. I believe you would even acknowledge that. These studies all pretty much show that someone who has been high "recently" is more likely to be in an accident.

In a lot of cases, yes.

But you cant accept a study as good science, knowing its flawed, because a better one doesnt exist. That's not a good policy.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:55 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I can promise you that answer is a lot closer to the truth than what you are saying in this thread which is that driving while high isn't a problem and never will be.

On page 1 you admitted this is an impossible question to answer. It really comes as no surprise to me that by the end of page 3 you are answering it in a matter-of-fact tone.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:56 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
But you cant accept a study as good science, knowing its flawed, because a better one doesnt exist. That's not a good policy.
You can though. Those studies are not to be looked at the undisputed answer. They are just more evidence. They fit in pretty well with what we know about marijuana and it would be logical based on that to think that driving while high may present a higher danger than driving while sober.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:56 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
We know that marijuana is a mind altering substance and we have proof that people with marijuana in their system are more likely to be in an accident.

But do we think they are more likely to be in an accident because they are currently inebriated, or because pot smokers are notoriously irresponsible individuals?

I'll hang up and listen for your answer.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:58 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I can promise you that answer is a lot closer to the truth than what you are saying in this thread which is that driving while high isn't a problem and never will be.

On page 1 you admitted this is an impossible question to answer.
No, I didn't.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:59 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I can promise you that answer is a lot closer to the truth than what you are saying in this thread which is that driving while high isn't a problem and never will be.

On page 1 you admitted this is an impossible question to answer.
No, I didn't.

You're right. It was page 2. Forgive me, I'm high.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:00 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
You're right. It was page 2. Forgive me, I'm high.
Not there either.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:02 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
You're right. It was page 2. Forgive me, I'm high.
Not there either.

Yes it is. You admitted that it is impossible to know if somebody is high at the time of an accident. A page later you are promising Bagels its a problem.

Also, you've been misusing the word proof. I think when you say proof you have been meaning to say evidence. There is no "proof" that marijuana users get in more accidents than non-marijuana users. But there is evidence suggesting it.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:03 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:

I'll hang up and listen for your answer.


no one's feeding any trolls here , take that shit somewhere else


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:04 am 
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Bagels wrote:
immessedup17 wrote:

I'll hang up and listen for your answer.


no one's feeding any trolls here , take that shit somewhere else

Maybe the weed has taken its toll on your short term memory. This is the CSFMB. We just had a 25 page thread that was 90% trolling. I once created a thread called The Pope is a Sith Lord that almost hit 100 pages.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:09 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:

We know that marijuana is a mind altering substance and we have proof that people with marijuana in their system are more likely to be in an accident.

Not accurate. You have a hunch.


People who are overly caffinated are likely more dangerous drivers, too. Why isnt that being researched? (and the fact that you and others laugh at this notion is )
I think that's Bagel's general point


The thing is, driving while high is not close to driving drunk and I think most people believe that it is. I cant blame them. If you've never done it, you couldnt possibly know.


To approach this like its drunk driving is a flawed premise though


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:10 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
Yes it is. You admitted that it is impossible to know if somebody is high at the time of an accident. A page later you are promising Bagels its a problem.
There was an "if" there that you fail to acknowledge. If we have to ignore THC in their system because it may be a week old then it is impossible to know if someone is high. I'm not sure we have to though as long as we keep that in mind.

Also, as I've pointed out with no response a few times, we know the physical effects of marijuana, so we can combine the statistics and those known effects and at least come to a conclusion that there is some level of increased danger from driving and smoking the sticky icky.
FavreFan wrote:
Also, you've been misusing the word proof. I think when you say proof you have been meaning to say evidence. There is no "proof" that marijuana users get in more accidents than non-marijuana users. But there is evidence suggesting it.
No, I'm using it just fine. It is a fact that they do.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:11 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Yes it is. You admitted that it is impossible to know if somebody is high at the time of an accident. A page later you are promising Bagels its a problem.
There was an "if" there that you fail to acknowledge. If we have to ignore THC in their system because it may be a week old then it is impossible to know if someone is high. I'm not sure we have to though as long as we keep that in mind.

Also, as I've pointed out with no response a few times, we know the physical effects of marijuana, so we can combine the statistics and those known effects and at least come to a conclusion that there is some level of increased danger from driving and smoking the sticky icky.
FavreFan wrote:
Also, you've been misusing the word proof. I think when you say proof you have been meaning to say evidence. There is no "proof" that marijuana users get in more accidents than non-marijuana users. But there is evidence suggesting it.
No, I'm using it just fine. It is a fact that they do.

Show me the proof, and I'll explain to you the difference.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:11 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
rogers park bryan wrote:
But you cant accept a study as good science, knowing its flawed, because a better one doesnt exist. That's not a good policy.
You can though. Those studies are not to be looked at the undisputed answer. They are just more evidence. They fit in pretty well with what we know about marijuana and it would be logical based on that to think that driving while high may present a higher danger than driving while sober.

No, they are not evidence. They dont count for anything.

Dont take this stance, Rick. Its ridiculous.


It would be like if you were doing a test on Purdue grads (except an unknown number of them might have gone to different schools) and saying "Well, its the best we have!"


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:12 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
Not accurate. You have a hunch.
No, it's not a hunch.
rogers park bryan wrote:
People who are overly caffinated are likely more dangerous drivers, too. Why isnt that being researched? (and the fact that you and others laugh at this notion is )
I think that's Bagel's general point
I'm guessing it is, otherwise, why don't you donate or campaign for some funding on that?
rogers park bryan wrote:
The thing is, driving while high is not close to driving drunk and I think most people believe that it is. I cant blame them. If you've never done it, you couldnt possibly know.
I've never done heroin. Can I assume that is not a good combination with driving?
rogers park bryan wrote:
To approach this like its drunk driving is a flawed premise though
So, are you saying that driving while high at any level isn't dangerous?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:13 am 
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He's saying its much closer to being "high" on coffee than it is alcohol or heroin. But most reasonable people already acknowledge that.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:14 am 
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immessedup17 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
We know that marijuana is a mind altering substance and we have proof that people with marijuana in their system are more likely to be in an accident.

But do we think they are more likely to be in an accident because they are currently inebriated, or because pot smokers are notoriously irresponsible individuals?

I'll hang up and listen for your answer.

This is a side effect of being a drinker. Skews your perception of reality.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:15 am 
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hey i just did a study with the 10 people sitting in the breakroom now, i asked them how many have driven high and the ones that did all were fine and never had an accident. its not the best, but its the only study i have to go with


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:16 am 
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Bagels wrote:
hey i just did a study with the 10 people sitting in the breakroom now, i asked them how many have driven high and the ones that did all were fine and never had an accident. its not the best, but its the only study i have to go with

I asked myself the same question and found the same results you did. The study has been peer-reviewed!

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:17 am 
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rogers park bryan wrote:
No, they are not evidence. They dont count for anything.
This is false. They count for something.
rogers park bryan wrote:
It would be like if you were doing a test on Purdue grads (except an unknown number of them might have gone to different schools) and saying "Well, its the best we have!"
I can give you countless examples of studies that only provide some amount of proof without being definitive. This is how science evolves. We figure out the current best answer and seek better ways to either prove or disprove it especially in regards to the brain which we have a very poor understanding of still.

Since it was brought up earlier, we don't even have a great explanation as to why we sleep. That doesn't mean the studies and knowledge of sleep are invalid.

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